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Darthflation... or have we reached peak Darths?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Community Content > Roleplaying
Darthflation... or have we reached peak Darths?

StarMagus's Avatar


StarMagus
11.18.2013 , 10:55 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by ScarletBlaze View Post
Honesty in my view on roleplay, levels, titles, etc above the names don't exist. You will have to come up to me and introduce yourself. I have no idea who you are or even your profession until you tell me. Also don't walk up to me saying my name either unless we have met. I will not answer you.

Would you honesty walk up to me and expect me to know who you are? Titles, names, levels, etc above the head is just a mechanic.
This had nothing to do with the name and the like above the person's head, and everything to do with the level 12 in question RPing and telling everybody he was a Darth and expecting others to be ok with. Honestly most people laughed him off, and one person played as if his character assumed he was a cultist who thought he could do things he clearly couldn't. He even acted like a level 50 guy who was only RPing his character as a Lord was doing something wrong by not treating him as if he had more authority. It was pretty silly.

StarMagus's Avatar


StarMagus
11.18.2013 , 10:58 PM | #12
Quote:
So, do you believe that every single 55 should be a Darth then? I don't understand since your thread title is about Darth inflation. I would think you'd encourage people to not assume max level = super powerful IC.
If you read my Opening I explained how I viewed the large number of Darths... not that everybody who is level 55 even claims to be a darth.

That said if low levels can fiat their character into power and title, then it should be just as valid if I claim my characters power relative to other people is based on his levels and character fighting ability as presented by the game. If you are as powerful, well connected, and have whatever titles you wish to give yourself, then that should work as well.

Beltane's Avatar


Beltane
11.19.2013 , 02:29 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by StarMagus View Post
This had nothing to do with the name and the like above the person's head, and everything to do with the level 12 in question RPing and telling everybody he was a Darth and expecting others to be ok with. Honestly most people laughed him off, and one person played as if his character assumed he was a cultist who thought he could do things he clearly couldn't. He even acted like a level 50 guy who was only RPing his character as a Lord was doing something wrong by not treating him as if he had more authority. It was pretty silly.
But... why can't you see the connection?

Level 12 is OOC knowledge the same way someone's character name is. Not everyone takes level IC, so expecting everyone to and making up things IC about their character is equally silly in many RPers eyes.

A level 12 Darth bossing everyone around should be no different IC than a level 55 Darth bossing everyone around. Because your character doesn't live in a world where people have numbers over their heads.

I feel the need to clarify again that I personally would never RP a low-level Darth, but I am gonna bring up my friend's experience as a level 20 Lord again. He had just rolled the character and decided to RP him on Korriban with me to get a feel for the character, while we were in the process of leveling. Some random person came up and started calling him "apprentice" and attempting to boss him around out of nowhere--i.e. they initiated a confrontation. When my friend's character ICly bristled and said he was a Lord, then all the IC comments like "No you aren't, you're an apprentice!" started up before devolving into them yelling in spatial about how level 20s aren't lords until they complete act 1 of the class story. It was so dumb and immersion breaking.

That situation was asinine and it sounds to me like people did the same thing to the level 12. If you don't want to RP with someone, just walk off. Demeaning their character IC is totally unnecessary. I see lots of people RPing things I refuse to have anything to do with, such as starting a "new empire" or RPing being on the dark council... so I just don't interact with them.

Game mechanics are OOC because they're part of a game. We could transplant our characters and write stories about them outside of the game where there is no such thing as a level. RP didn't originate in MMOs after all. It's fine to use levels IC, but it isn't really the norm either.

ScarletBlaze's Avatar


ScarletBlaze
11.19.2013 , 03:27 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by StarMagus View Post
This had nothing to do with the name and the like above the person's head, and everything to do with the level 12 in question RPing and telling everybody he was a Darth and expecting others to be ok with. Honestly most people laughed him off, and one person played as if his character assumed he was a cultist who thought he could do things he clearly couldn't. He even acted like a level 50 guy who was only RPing his character as a Lord was doing something wrong by not treating him as if he had more authority. It was pretty silly.
How did you know he was a level 12 actually? By what was above his head? That is a game mechanic and for some people it is not used.

Let's put it this way if the level, etc was not able to be seen would you have known he was a level 12? What if you were doing a forum roleplay? Would that even be brought up? No. You see I don't use game mechanics as a form of my roleplay . You don't have to roleplay with the person but that doesn't mean his roleplay is wrong either.

The emphasis should not be on the level but on the person and if you want to roleplay with them. If you don't move on and find people you can roleplay with.
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StarMagus's Avatar


StarMagus
11.19.2013 , 07:43 AM | #15
Quote:
A level 12 Darth bossing everyone around should be no different IC than a level 55 Darth bossing everyone around. Because your character doesn't live in a world where people have numbers over their heads.
Except if you take the level 12 to any of the major planets he's going to get creamed by anything in the game. Where as the Level 55.. not so much. There is a power difference in the characters.

Quote:
That situation was asinine and it sounds to me like people did the same thing to the level 12
That's exactly the opposite of what I described, so I'm wondering where you got that it sounds like that.

StarMagus's Avatar


StarMagus
11.19.2013 , 07:44 AM | #16
Quote:
Let's put it this way if the level, etc was not able to be seen would you have known he was a level 12? What if you were doing a forum roleplay? Would that even be brought up? No. You see I don't use game mechanics as a form of my roleplay . You don't have to roleplay with the person but that doesn't mean his roleplay is wrong either.
He clearly didn't have the powers of somebody who had completed the game. At level 12, most of the powers you get in the game aren't even there yet.

That said.... I'll repeat from before...

It's very much part of the lore that force users can get a feel for how powerful other force users are.

Beltane's Avatar


Beltane
11.19.2013 , 08:45 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by StarMagus View Post
Except if you take the level 12 to any of the major planets he's going to get creamed by anything in the game. Where as the Level 55.. not so much. There is a power difference in the characters.
But you aren't acknowledging what we're telling you! You are perfectly entitled to RP that way but it is NOT the norm for other people to. I have been RPing in MMOs for a very long time and I've met enough RPers across multiple games and servers that I can safely say there are more RPers who view level as purely OOC than RPers who view it as IC.

You also aren't acknowledging the fact that a level 55 is not necessarily a powerful character IC. I keep using the example of my main. OOC I enjoy PVPing on her the most and she can beat most people in duels. IC, she isn't a fighter at all. She would lose virtually any direct fight. Just because I can solo Oricon on her OOC doesn't mean that she's powerful IC.

And, you also aren't acknowledging what I said earlier. Lord & Darth are political titles and have virtually nothing to do with physical skill in combat or "power level." Darth Vowrawn was on the Dark Council and yet needed help from other people to not die. Darth Zhorrid was also on the Dark Council and got beaten up several times. And then there are incredibly powerful Lords who never rise to Darth at all.

Add into this that a gigantic number of RPers take killing mobs OOC (i.e. my guild had a RP event on Oricon and we would nuke the mobs and resume RPing as if nothing had happened) and that the majority of RP takes place in "safe" locations where there is no PVE or PVP combat and the ability to kill mobs means extremely little in day to day RP interactions.

Quote:
That's exactly the opposite of what I described, so I'm wondering where you got that it sounds like that.
How is it the opposite? You said that people responded to the level 12 Darth by telling him he was a cultist and not a Darth or by laughing him off and refusing to accept his claims. That is the same exact scenario I brought up with my friend being told he wasn't a Lord and was REALLY an apprentice because he was level 20. Both are metagaming OOC information (level) and abusing it by using it IC to minimize someone else's character and attempt to maintain IC superiority. It all comes down to ego in the end and how nobody dares want to "lose" by considering that other characters might have power of their own.

Quote: Originally Posted by StarMagus View Post
It's very much part of the lore that force users can get a feel for how powerful other force users are.
Which is true, yet has no bearing on RP for many people. That's all we're saying. Are all level 55s equal in power? No... so why is it someone's place to inform a lower level character that they aren't what they say they are IC?

I would be just as offended by someone "sensing" that my geared 55 was powerful, because she isn't IC! "Sensing" someone's level is metagaming to the same extent that "knowing" their name or guild tag IC is. Seriously.

Judging by the description of the level 12 Darth, I am willing to bet that you would have had an issue with his RP even if he was geared and level 55.

Stradlin's Avatar


Stradlin
11.19.2013 , 10:23 AM | #18
I personally have absolutely no issue with a lvl 12 dude claiming to be a Darth, as long as it happens so he plays the role well. How is it that you think this isn't all that really matters? I'm amazed if that isn't all that matters for the majority of people reading this thread. Leveling your character to 50 or 55 doesn't magically attune you to some mad RP skillz.

Significant portion of charactets RP'd as Darths, Lords, Jedi or Jedi Masters degenerate into flirty characters of Sex and the City anyway. If in middle of all this pops a creative lvl 22 dude who has a very clear, impressive idea of how to RP a Darth, why on earth do you find it in you to disapprove? It should be only a good thing, even from your very selfish POV.

In my opinnion, if you start paying too much attention to stuff like character level, amount of XP earned and such it will only end up hurting the RP. It most definately shouldn't be some deciding or definining aspect in anything. I'd like to think most people who are part of some larger RP community or another can agree class story or most of the ways you earn XP can't really be some central, integral or even existing part of your character's history RP-wise. With that in mind, why should the level earned be put on some altar above everything else?

Isaac Asimov, G.R.R Martin and Timothy Zahn decide their boy club needs a new hobby. Why not start TOR and create an RP guild of three Darths. They have no intention or desire to play through the class story but rather, begin RPing from get go. They immediately begin producing freakin Hugo award winning prose in /say to everybody around them. ->OP proceeds to ridicule them because lvl 12 can't be a darth. Asimov gets pissed and goes back to WoW. gg, OP
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OddballEasyEight's Avatar


OddballEasyEight
11.19.2013 , 10:53 AM | #19
I usually don't roleplay much (not in the "traditional" way at least).
Mainly because I'm dyslexic and therefore have problem typing and reading at the pace needed for more than 1 on 1 RP.
And secondly because I find roleplay in MMO's kinda boring and consisting of mostly people fluffing their own ego (sorry if I offend anyone here).
I grew up on PnP roleplaying games and there you had to work to get your character to an epic level.
And even then the GM could snuff you at a whim if he wanted to.

But in MMO's people usually have a superpowerful character (ie. "I am the chosen one!") and it all devolves into a pissing contest of word vs. word.

Now, if someone has actually taken the time to play to lvl 55 or whatnot and earned the title of Darth, then sure, I'll cut them some slack if they at least stay within the "I am one of many" type character.
And if they still insist on the kind of RP where they are the pivot of the universe and more powerful than everyone else combined, I'll just ignore them.

If a lvl 12, however, comes up to me claiming to be a Darth and demanding that I obey him or something like that... well then I'll just claim to be the emperor and that he should submit to my domination or face death.

Because if he can be a Darth at lvl 12, then I sure as heck can be the Emperor.

I know this ruffles alot of feathers in the RP community, but honestly, unless that lvl 12 has a following of 20 other RP'ers who swear that he is their master and they obey him, I'm not going to take him seriously.
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StarMagus's Avatar


StarMagus
11.19.2013 , 11:04 AM | #20
Quote:
How is it the opposite? You said that people responded to the level 12 Darth by telling him he was a cultist and not a Darth or by laughing him off and refusing to accept his claims. That is the same exact scenario I brought up with my friend being told he wasn't a Lord and was REALLY an apprentice because he was level 20. Both are metagaming OOC information (level) and abusing it by using it IC to minimize someone else's character and attempt to maintain IC superiority. It all comes down to ego in the end and how nobody dares want to "lose" by considering that other characters might have power of their own.
People only started to react that way to him after he started giving orders and tossing around his weight as a Darth and saying that he could defeat them easily because they were only a lord and he was a Darth and that made him a big shot in the Empire.

Obviously nobody can fight another on fleet, the mechanics of the game prevent it... but that doesn't stop people from posturing.