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Ninjas in flashpoints - Can be fixed easily


bdatt's Avatar


bdatt
11.13.2013 , 05:01 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Prototypemind View Post
Fact is the items are specced in a way to provide maximum benefits to certain character types and they should have priority.
I'm pretty sure BioWare purposefully speccs items in a way that requires mix and match, so that the gearing process takes longer. So many "tank" enhancements with alacrity...

I wonder if everyone in this thread has the option checked to show more details when you hover over an item (it's not the default view, so I ask)? If you're just seeing the total aggregate end/main/secondary/tertiary stats you aren't getting all the information by viewing each armoring/mod/enhancement individually.

So I'm with the group that thinks you can need on a single enhancement. It's easy to get non-set bonus armorings and unlettered mods (except for tanks) with comms, but if a low endurance power-surge/accuracy or bulwark/bastion tank enhancement actually showed up I'd definitely be rolling for it. Although that may be moot and non-existent in flashpoints, they do show up with non-token pieces in ops.
Kristioli | Jedi Shadow | Kinetic Combat
Pillars of Ashla

Pietrastor's Avatar


Pietrastor
11.13.2013 , 08:27 PM | #12
Or just remove the archaic random drops system that promotes nothing but luck and encourages ninjaing and replace it with more pre-determined rewards in mission complete pop-up.

Prototypemind's Avatar


Prototypemind
11.13.2013 , 09:31 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by bdatt View Post
I'm pretty sure BioWare purposefully speccs items in a way that requires mix and match, so that the gearing process takes longer. So many "tank" enhancements with alacrity...

I wonder if everyone in this thread has the option checked to show more details when you hover over an item (it's not the default view, so I ask)? If you're just seeing the total aggregate end/main/secondary/tertiary stats you aren't getting all the information by viewing each armoring/mod/enhancement individually.

So I'm with the group that thinks you can need on a single enhancement. It's easy to get non-set bonus armorings and unlettered mods (except for tanks) with comms, but if a low endurance power-surge/accuracy or bulwark/bastion tank enhancement actually showed up I'd definitely be rolling for it. Although that may be moot and non-existent in flashpoints, they do show up with non-token pieces in ops.
I'm assuming lower level FPs here. I've almost never run into situations with people ninja'ing items in 50+ FPs. It's generally pretty well understood how things work by that point. The mix and match issues are more of a problem in Operation drops and Basic/Elite/Ultimate comm items.

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
11.13.2013 , 11:31 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Mavery View Post
I've never been kicked from a group and I doubt I ever will.

You're entitled, man. If the item is an upgrade to persons A, B, and C -- no matter how great or small -- what right do you have to tell person C and A that they can't have it, even if it's an upgrade? We're not talking guild runs here. These are PUG runs. If I see an upgrade -- even if it's just an enhancement -- I have and will need on it.

This is not ninjaing. The loot does not say "consular only" or "smuggler only." All four roles can benefit from enhancement / crystals and if it's a desired upgrade for their main spec, we, as players, have no right to deny him / her of an upgrade.

If this issue really bothers players, then the blame should be firmly placed on BioWare's shoulders. They need to do something like place main stat on enhancements or something of the kind.

As it is? We're calling people ninjas for needing on upgrades for their main spec. How sad is that?
When you go into a group, you know exactly what is expected behavior regarding loot. You know it very well, Everybody does.
You may disagree of course with these social rules but you are aware of them.

When you enter the group, before anything, do you make your case and you tell them "I plan on needing on everthing that has an enhancement I may want" in advance ? Or you just keep it to yourself, and "need" whatever item drops and see how things play out ?

pan_sObak's Avatar


pan_sObak
11.14.2013 , 12:41 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Mavery View Post
All four roles can benefit from enhancement / crystals and if it's a desired upgrade for their main spec, we, as players, have no right to deny him / her of an upgrade.

If this issue really bothers players, then the blame should be firmly placed on BioWare's shoulders. They need to do something like place main stat on enhancements or something of the kind.

As it is? We're calling people ninjas for needing on upgrades for their main spec. How sad is that?
main stat for every class is defined - it's aim, willpower, cunning or strength

if you NEED for a gear with not your main stat - it's ninja looting
you can think anything about you not being ninja, but the fact is that you NEED a gear with others main stat

the rule is - NEED only for gear with your main stat
if you want it for your alt or companion or even enhancement for yourself - ask before

as for blaming BW - every thief has an excuse
"it's not me - it's just a hard life and circumstances!"
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Craft: Bio 450, Cyber 450, Arm 450, Armor 450, Art 450, Syth 450- no use of them!

slafko's Avatar


slafko
11.14.2013 , 01:56 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by pan_sObak View Post
as for blaming BW - every thief has an excuse
Best excuse I ever saw was "I didn't see you" after asking the guy why the hell did he open the big chest while I was fighting two champ droids with lesser friends. The guy's eyesight is so poor he managed to miss a shadow and Nadia fighting a group of 5 mobs, two of which are droids 3 meters tall. At the same time, the loot chest was a shiny beacon bathed in divine light and the heavenly choir started playing as he opened it.

Ardarell_Solo's Avatar


Ardarell_Solo
11.14.2013 , 03:38 AM | #17
It's just a matter of politeness and good common sense not to roll on items that don't carry your mainstat as long as someone with the "right" mainstat is in the group.

Though someone might "need" an enhancement, it doesn't justify a need roll on the whole item. That's just bad manners and inconsiderate behaviour to your fellow players.

As a side note: I wouldn't kick someone from the group for doing it, that's just too much effort. I'd just label that player a bad person and avoid being grouped with him again.
If another player criticizes the unjustified need roll (which I'm mostly too lazy to do either) and he gets impolite in his answer, I'll put that player on my Ignore list.
So don't be too sure that your behaviour is ok, just because it doesn't get openly criticized or sanctioned. There may still be a silent majority of people facepalming at what you just did...
El'ethon (Sentinel) | Rickmyron (Gunslinger) | Alreegan (Sage)
Craeg (Scoundrel) | Dacs (Commando) | Vayus (Guardian)
<Taking the Jawas to Alderaan>
T3-M4

Mavery's Avatar


Mavery
11.14.2013 , 02:49 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by wainot-keel View Post
When you go into a group, you know exactly what is expected behavior regarding loot. You know it very well, Everybody does.
You may disagree of course with these social rules but you are aware of them.

When you enter the group, before anything, do you make your case and you tell them "I plan on needing on everthing that has an enhancement I may want" in advance ? Or you just keep it to yourself, and "need" whatever item drops and see how things play out ?
Yes, I'm aware of the rules. It goes like this, "if an item drops that is an upgrade for your current role and specialization, hit need. Otherwise, hit greed."

If a moddable item drops that has an enhancement that is a clear upgrade, that is within the accepted rules to hit need. I've had someone hit need for an item where they are only using a single mod -- and I could have used all three -- and I did not complain for a single moment.

Any rules that are more complicated than I prescribed are for guilds, not pugs.

==

Quote: Originally Posted by pan_sObak View Post
main stat for every class is defined - it's aim, willpower, cunning or strength

if you NEED for a gear with not your main stat - it's ninja looting
you can think anything about you not being ninja, but the fact is that you NEED a gear with others main stat

the rule is - NEED only for gear with your main stat
if you want it for your alt or companion or even enhancement for yourself - ask before

as for blaming BW - every thief has an excuse
"it's not me - it's just a hard life and circumstances!"
You really need to look up the definition of ninja looting because you do not have it. How is it ninja looting if someone rolls need on something that will directly upgrade their current role and specialization? I will concede that something may be a better upgrade for someone else, but if it's a PUG, no one has these considerations. In a PUG your objective is to upgrade your toon. In a guild run, the focus is the team, and that's where you can have more complex rules.

I, and the vast majority of players in this game, roll need (in a PUG) if we upgrade our current character and specialization. You may want different rules (lol ask if I can roll need on an upgrade) but that is not what the majority does.

==

Here is the definition of WoW Wiki for ninja looting. Yes, I know this is SWTOR, but the definition is transferable and works here.

I don't know about you, but I see nothing in there as far as needing for upgrades.

psandak's Avatar


psandak
11.14.2013 , 03:01 PM | #19
I am of two minds on this:

#1 - the piece of equipment as a whole is intended for a JC/SI class. So for a non-JC/SI to click need reeks of ninja
#2 - if the enhancement is in fact a upgrade for the JK, then I do not have an issue with him "needing" it.

If I had been in that JK's place, I would have asked the group, but that's me.

Zadtro's Avatar


Zadtro
11.14.2013 , 04:10 PM | #20
I can see why players would see 1 mod out of 4 being an upgrade as a reason to need. I am just saying in this case he needed it for the enhancement which was endurance/power. I know a little bit of power is ok for a tank but it is much more useful to a dps and i needed all 4 mods. I am a believer that main stat = need roll.

What i don't understand is how you can't need on gear which has same armor but you can need on any type of lightsaber if you are a force class. Like a tank needing on a double bladed lightsaber for the enhancement is ridiculous because for 2 coms you could get the right enhancement from supplies vendor so why take 4 mods from another player. I know WoW had terrible ninjaring but i really don't want this game to go down the same route. Then again i just tend to ignore people who need on stuff just for 1 mod when they really should ask first.

Same with a companion, if you want it for your companion then ask, it is an extension of your char but that gives you no right to need it. Technically everyone should need on everything if it includes companions.