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Ninjas in flashpoints - Can be fixed easily


Zadtro's Avatar


Zadtro
11.12.2013 , 01:49 PM | #1
Today i was in a flashpoint and i am a sage so i rolled on a gear with willpower. Then this guardian takes a minute and thinks about it then he needs it which ends up him winning it. I asked him nicely to please trade it to me because he doesn't need willpower he needs strength.

He then replied "i can use 1 of the mods in this gear"
I became a little annoyed at how i could use all 4 mods on the lightsaber but he only wanted it because of the enhancement mod. This is something really frustrating, lightsabers in flashpoints can be needed by knights and consulars. It should be down to the stats on the item not the type of gear that drops which gives players the option to need on.

So basically i would like to ask BW to change it so the right class can only need on the gear for them and not any gear that they can use. Thank you.

Otchiver's Avatar


Otchiver
11.12.2013 , 02:49 PM | #2
Pretty easy to handle this, the way you suggested would prevent greed rolls.
It's a pain.
What i do, is Vote kick the player... Ninja looting isn't tolerable under any circumstance.
This is more worrysome in Ops because the type of loot that drops.
I'd personally would have voted to kick that person as it's a kickable offense.

Hope this helps.

RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
11.12.2013 , 03:30 PM | #3
"Need" means that an item could be used to upgrade your gear, so in a sense, he had just as much right as you to press need on that item, anyway, the gear from flashpoints very **** so just go with it, it sucks when it happend, you needed the item more then he needed it, but it happened. This suggestion has been written since game launched and still no answer from developers regarding this.
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Mavery's Avatar


Mavery
11.12.2013 , 03:42 PM | #4
This is not called "ninja looting." Ninja looting means the person needed on the item(s) that were not upgrades to him/her, for the purposes of i) spiting the group and / or ii) selfish monetary gain.

You both had need of the item dropped. Admittedly, your need was quantifiably greater; but he still had use for the item and he clearly intends to use it as an upgrade. This is not a loot issue. This is an enhancement issue. I've needed on tank items in the past that were originally designed for guardians / vanguards because the enhancement in it was an enormous upgrade.

We can pass judgment on the individual for not trading when your need was greater. But if this was simply a pug run and the likelihood of you two seeing each other again was minimal? I cannot condemn him for doing that. If this supposition is true, you're both in the instance to get gear, you have no mutual progression interest, so why vilify him when he can get an upgrade?

I certainly wouldn't.

Horaciozhao's Avatar


Horaciozhao
11.13.2013 , 09:51 AM | #5
it is ninja looting and if you think itīs not, donīt be surprised next time you get kicked from group. all the enhancements and crystals are not main stats specified, so if you think that is a upgrade so itīs not a ninja loot then everyone can need everything. If itīs a willpower saber, it belongs to consulars or inquisitors, period. A knight or a warrior needing it is definitely ninja looting. And ninja looter usually get kicked immediately or ignored immediately, so I strongly advise you not trying that. But well, I guess there are people who just donīt give a **** about others.

And about the loot in fp is nothing comparing to operations. Thatīs not the reason of tolerating ninja looter, for people who are new to the game, that fp loot is very important, and itīs their right to have it.

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
11.13.2013 , 10:24 AM | #6
Just curiuos, was the Guardian the tank ?

Min /maxing your toon with enhancements from flashpoints drops. Sounds about right,lol. Knights needing willpower gear is 99% of the time for their Kiras.

You have a class and and a specific role during that flashpoint. Is not that hard to establish for whom that gear is meant for.... If the gear mainstat doesn't match your class, "need" button should be disabled. You can always greed it.

Mavery's Avatar


Mavery
11.13.2013 , 12:52 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Horaciozhao View Post
it is ninja looting and if you think itīs not, donīt be surprised next time you get kicked from group. all the enhancements and crystals are not main stats specified, so if you think that is a upgrade so itīs not a ninja loot then everyone can need everything. If itīs a willpower saber, it belongs to consulars or inquisitors, period. A knight or a warrior needing it is definitely ninja looting. And ninja looter usually get kicked immediately or ignored immediately, so I strongly advise you not trying that. But well, I guess there are people who just donīt give a **** about others.

And about the loot in fp is nothing comparing to operations. Thatīs not the reason of tolerating ninja looter, for people who are new to the game, that fp loot is very important, and itīs their right to have it.
I've never been kicked from a group and I doubt I ever will.

You're entitled, man. If the item is an upgrade to persons A, B, and C -- no matter how great or small -- what right do you have to tell person C and A that they can't have it, even if it's an upgrade? We're not talking guild runs here. These are PUG runs. If I see an upgrade -- even if it's just an enhancement -- I have and will need on it.

This is not ninjaing. The loot does not say "consular only" or "smuggler only." All four roles can benefit from enhancement / crystals and if it's a desired upgrade for their main spec, we, as players, have no right to deny him / her of an upgrade.

If this issue really bothers players, then the blame should be firmly placed on BioWare's shoulders. They need to do something like place main stat on enhancements or something of the kind.

As it is? We're calling people ninjas for needing on upgrades for their main spec. How sad is that?

Prototypemind's Avatar


Prototypemind
11.13.2013 , 03:19 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Mavery View Post
I've never been kicked from a group and I doubt I ever will.

You're entitled, man. If the item is an upgrade to persons A, B, and C -- no matter how great or small -- what right do you have to tell person C and A that they can't have it, even if it's an upgrade? We're not talking guild runs here. These are PUG runs. If I see an upgrade -- even if it's just an enhancement -- I have and will need on it.

This is not ninjaing. The loot does not say "consular only" or "smuggler only." All four roles can benefit from enhancement / crystals and if it's a desired upgrade for their main spec, we, as players, have no right to deny him / her of an upgrade.

As it is? We're calling people ninjas for needing on upgrades for their main spec. How sad is that?
So Unwavering Powertech's Foundry Jacket is called that because it's meant for any class to use? Fact is the items are specced in a way to provide maximum benefits to certain character types and they should have priority. If they have no need for the item then everyone can greed and whoever gets it can benefit from it. There's no need to roll need for a single mod.

Guess each group is different, but I've yet to play with one who doesn't consider needing on a non-class item ninja looting, with the exception of ninja looters themselves in the group. If you're wanting it for a single mod then simply greed on it and if the role it's designed for doesn't need it then it's up for grabs.

When I run with my guild none of us need on items in FPs or Ops for single mods. When that happens in pug groups it's discussed and cleared up, and if it happens again it's generally a vote kick with those I've played with.

As to the OP, making it so that only the main class the item is intended for has the ability to need could be somewhat of a fix but I doubt even that would be perfect.

Lumpyone's Avatar


Lumpyone
11.13.2013 , 03:19 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Mavery View Post
I've never been kicked from a group and I doubt I ever will.

You're entitled, man. If the item is an upgrade to persons A, B, and C -- no matter how great or small -- what right do you have to tell person C and A that they can't have it, even if it's an upgrade? We're not talking guild runs here. These are PUG runs. If I see an upgrade -- even if it's just an enhancement -- I have and will need on it.

This is not ninjaing. The loot does not say "consular only" or "smuggler only." All four roles can benefit from enhancement / crystals and if it's a desired upgrade for their main spec, we, as players, have no right to deny him / her of an upgrade.

If this issue really bothers players, then the blame should be firmly placed on BioWare's shoulders. They need to do something like place main stat on enhancements or something of the kind.

As it is? We're calling people ninjas for needing on upgrades for their main spec. How sad is that?
/Agree. Especially with lightsabers. I've been in FPs where a Guardian will need on a saber with willpower and beat me on a fair roll, even though my consular could use every single item on the saber and all he wanted it for was the look of the saber. Was I upset or call him Ninja? Nope, he wont fair and square and had just as much NEED for the item as I did.

I think its sad people calling others ninja over such minor issues as this honestly, at least in a PUGed FP. The only way to prevent this is to set up any loot rules on Needing with the entire group BEFORE starting the FP. Not after something like this where you think its wrong.

Lumpyone's Avatar


Lumpyone
11.13.2013 , 03:30 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Prototypemind View Post
So Unwavering Powertech's Foundry Jacket is called that because it's meant for any class to use? Fact is the items are specced in a way to provide maximum benefits to certain character types and they should have priority. If they have no need for the item then everyone can greed and whoever gets it can benefit from it. There's no need to roll need for a single mod.
There are a couple of things here to consider, which is different from most other games:

1. FP items are useful for leveling, but honestly its mostly about LOOK than min/maxing. You don't even really need to worry about min/maxing stats until HM/NiM OPs at endgame. So you are right in saying "there's no need to roll for a single mod", at least I'd agree while leveling. Its just as easy to take the comms you just got from the run to go buy an upgrade or two. At end game its a completely different issue, especially with the poor itemization on most pieces.

2. While leveling, companions are a major factor in completing quests and fights for many players. I personally feel needing on an item for a companion is OK while leveling (but NOT at end game). The reason I think its OK is because how much you use your companion; its an extension of your toon's abilities just like another piece of gear (like a weapon or chest piece). Healers especially need a well geared tank companion to complete many fights.