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Is SWTOR better than WoW?


Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
01.17.2014 , 05:50 PM | #81
/giggles at "WoW has a lore that's superior to SWTOR"

I guess its really to each their own...

been playing WoW again, on free trial. just wanted to see some of the new intro zones that I missed, mostly alliance side (back when I subbed, I mainly played horde, and my solitary alliance toon that I didn't delete, was created and leveled back in BC. the ones that i did delete, were created in wrath, so still before cataclysm changes)

I've gotten spoiled by voice acting. now... I don't mind reading quest text, but what makes it very jarring in WoW is that all npc's of particular race/gender have couple of soundbits. that they say every time you click on them. regardless of why you click on them. so hearing calm voice going "get gabbing or get going" juxtaposed with urgent music and text telling me that I must defend the civilians from this vicious attack, and that we cannot hold out for much longer!? yeah....

better is definitely a subjective thing. and to be honest, I also prefer the way SWTOR handles gear, becasue not only can I wear the same outfit from about lvl 10 and up without having to transmog it... over and over unless I'm using account bound gear, but even then - its neither adoptive armor, nor does it have flexible stats so I would have to buy a new set for each class that uses different mainstat/armor rating, although I give it that = account bound gear levels with your character. so pick which benefit you like better

not only do I get color matching (while WoW doesn't) and dye (as sparse as the dye system is, compared to other games, at least its actualy here) but in many ways, min maxing stats is more... friendly after a fashion, or at least more flexible. itemization can be awful in both games sometimes, but at least in tor, I can cherry pick mods and create exactly what I want, while in WoW I have reforging where I can substitute one secondary stat for another secondary stat... partially. and i believe they are removing that system in expansion.

what you prefer is very much individual thing. I honestly cannot say that one game is objectively better than the other. WoW is more popular, has been around longer and has bigger subscription base.
I still prefer SWTOR. in fact, playing WoW reminds me just how much. but I can make that judgement call not from listening to other people's options, but rather playing both games myself and making up my own mind.

Quote: Originally Posted by Amantino View Post
The skill trees in WoW are much better than in SWTOR, even thought they are simpler. In SWTOR, theres one spec thats the best, with some slight variations around that. You're pretty much locked. In WoW, atleast for the classes I play, the different talents are more situational and personal prefrence.

WoW > SWTOR. And thats coming from a hardcore SWTOR-fan.
pretty damn sure its the other way around.

we can have 3 snipers in a progression ops, playing 3 different specs and not even covering all the possible specs - and all of them would be performing very well. hell I've seen tanks experimenting with their specs and talents and itemization, situationaly. the only role that doesn't have as much wiggle room - is a healer, mainly becasue you kinda really need that top tier ability. I've healed without it, but mostly because I like leveling as a hybrid a lot. ups my survivability AND gives me more damage. no such thing as hybrid in WoW anymore.

in WoW not only majority of your abilities are picked for you - those 5 that you get to pick out yourself? there are couple of classes where they have a personal preference choice, but for everyone else? there's a "best" ability in every tier and if you pick anything else? you are gimping yourself AND your group. and its the same with major glyphs (minor glyphs have more wiggle room, but not by much) for reference, I played everything but warrior in variety of roles.

Erasimus's Avatar


Erasimus
01.17.2014 , 07:56 PM | #82
I play and enjoy both WoW and SWTOR. I've played WoW since release and was in SWTOR from pre-release.

If I had to pick just one to play it would be WoW. Fortunately my only restriction is the time I have to play so I can play both when I choose.

Game Play:
I prefer WoW for both PvE and PvP I find WoW more challenging with a better combat system, fewer issues and greater variety. There are lots of things to do no matter how casual or hard-core you are. The current talent system in WoW is, IMO, superior to the old WoW and to the one in SWTOR. The variety in the old WoW talent system that some people miss was an illusion. There were two or three standard builds that had been min/maxed by theorycrafters and you followed those or your under performed, period. Now there are half a dozen variations that you can actually change on the fly (between fights) that all provide different advantages.

Leveling:
SWTOR has one of the best leveling experiences with the class stories. I like the leveling experience in WoW but SWTOR is superior in that regard.

Lore:
I've seen all the Star Wars films, as an adult, when they were released and a couple of times since (yes I'm that old). But I'm not a "Fan". I've also played all the Warcraft games. To me the WoW has an edge in lore, but then I've even read some of the Warcraft novels and have never looked at anything Star Wars except the movies until this game. Oh and the Pandarin are in the Warcraft lore and Pandaria is one of my favorite expansions to date.

Overall:
I'll play both so long has I'm having fun, but, for me, I'd give a pretty big edge to WoW. I still play SWTOR very casually for a change of pace.
"Give light and the darkness will disappear of itself."

Silko's Avatar


Silko
01.18.2014 , 01:03 AM | #83
Seeing as a bag of burning dog **** is better then WoW....
"Those who ask for mercy, are too weak to deserve it"

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KrustyDog's Avatar


KrustyDog
01.18.2014 , 01:14 AM | #84
I never got to doink anyone in WoW. Just saying. SWtoR>WoW.

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
01.18.2014 , 01:31 AM | #85
I had this long rant replaying and refuting Erasmus's points and then I realized - most of it is still subjective (and no, you cannot compare lore if you don't know much about one of the lores you are comparing, and not interested in finding out more)

so I'll just keep one part in. up until second part of Wrath - don't remember which patch it was exactly, I just remember going to the target dummies with bunch of other players and just kinda sharing in shock and disbelief. before that patch you COULD successfully play as a hybrid. and even if you dps dropped, your utility went up, so there was still a spot for you on a raid team. nowadays? contrary to your claim, there are still minmaxed specs. but now they deal with 5 tiers of abilities instead of a full tree, as well as glyphs. pick something other than what's recommended? and you gimp yourself and your group. it did make it a little bit more new player friendly, since there's no longer any confusion in how to spec, or what trees to pick (and they started on that path back in Cata, that's where flexibility died. pandaria just finalized it)
there are multiple useful specs possible in SWTOR up to and including different specs working best for different boss fights. hell the other week, I've seen a hybrid tank. and damn if he wasn't kicking *** (and was still pretty decent to heal)

what you prefer, what you find more fun? is subjective. but saying that WoW is objectively better? I don't know about that, dude....

OddballEasyEight's Avatar


OddballEasyEight
01.18.2014 , 01:45 AM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by ItachiZaku View Post
Swtor is mostly the same EQ model, add in the story cinematic stuff, and it puts it ahead as well has the universe that is vastly superior to WoW, but wow has the lore that is vastly superior to swtor.
Did you just say that WoW's lore is better than Star Wars lore?
Because SW:TOR's lore is the star wars lore...
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Erasimus's Avatar


Erasimus
01.18.2014 , 11:02 AM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
I had this long rant replaying and refuting Erasmus's points and then I realized - most of it is still subjective (and no, you cannot compare lore if you don't know much about one of the lores you are comparing, and not interested in finding out more)

so I'll just keep one part in. up until second part of Wrath - don't remember which patch it was exactly, I just remember going to the target dummies with bunch of other players and just kinda sharing in shock and disbelief. before that patch you COULD successfully play as a hybrid. and even if you dps dropped, your utility went up, so there was still a spot for you on a raid team. nowadays? contrary to your claim, there are still minmaxed specs. but now they deal with 5 tiers of abilities instead of a full tree, as well as glyphs. pick something other than what's recommended? and you gimp yourself and your group. it did make it a little bit more new player friendly, since there's no longer any confusion in how to spec, or what trees to pick (and they started on that path back in Cata, that's where flexibility died. pandaria just finalized it)
there are multiple useful specs possible in SWTOR up to and including different specs working best for different boss fights. hell the other week, I've seen a hybrid tank. and damn if he wasn't kicking *** (and was still pretty decent to heal)

what you prefer, what you find more fun? is subjective. but saying that WoW is objectively better? I don't know about that, dude....
Well of course everything in this thread is subjective unless we decide to use objective measures and there are very few of those, like number of subscribers, profitability, etc. And none of the objective measures are going to change how most people "feel" about a game.

My original main in WoW was a NE Priest then I switched to a Warlock.

I remember hybrid specs, but I also remember that Blizzard actively crushed successful hybrid specs whenever they became popular. I'm remembering the Warlock drain tank. It was pretty funny being able to take on pretty much any class with that hybrid build in PvP and just DoT and dain life until they died. No so much fun for melee classes I guess

I also used the hybrid shadow/fire spec at the beginning of Wrath, but that spec too was crushed by Blizzard pretty quickly.

Lots of subjectives in any game. Take graphics, I like WoW's art style. There is another major graphics update coming with WoD and many are viewing it with some suspicion and hoping it doesn't change the look/feel of their character too extensively. (P.S. I also like not having to watch the grass grow as I toddle along like it does in SWTOR )

Variable weather, liquid effects, etc. are something I've become used to in WoW and don't even notice until I go to a game that doesn't have them like SWTOR.

However, I do like the class stories in SWTOR, although I understand that is over now. There are other things were I like the concepts of (like PvP) but feel there are still too many flaws that make it something I only do from time to time. (Note: 8 Death matches and 5 Huttballs, out of 15 matches is, to me, rather discouraging and that happened to me the other night. Especially since I refuse to play PuG 4 person death matches, probably because I'm a mediocre PvP'er.)

Encounter mechanics for raids/operations is something I didn't mention in my other post. Mostly because I found the OPs and flash points I did originally in SWTOR to be less than challenging and the mechanics uninteresting. Perhaps I'll try some of the current content and see if I feel differently. Now I've done almost all the current content in WoW and the Blizzard folks, in my opinion, still have some of the best encounter designers in the business.

But the bottom line, as someone else said, is fun. If you still find a game entertaining wether it is Hello Kitty, SWTOR, or WoW then play it because that is all that really matters.

One additional note (I'm looking for reasons to not start working again but guess I'll have to after this )
Addons -
I think Bio/Ea is missing the boat by not allowing at least UI customization add ons. I know that add ons in general and specifically UI customization add ons are part of what keeps a game as old as WoW fresh. Every now and then I give the game a whole new look and feel just by using add ons. I especially like the add ons I use that let me customize how I display cool downs, etc. Oh well, back to work.

(P.S. I haven't mentioned GSF because I only tried it briefly and immediately destroyed all my "free" GSF stuff to make room. GSF like many FPS and Flight type sims make me nauseous so any opinions I'd have about that are really skewed )
"Give light and the darkness will disappear of itself."

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
01.18.2014 , 12:03 PM | #88
actualy lack of addons is in my book a huge bonus, rather than a negative.

when i started playing on my free account in WoW... I lasted exactly an hour before i had to start downloading the damn things becasue, without - my UI is awful and i cannot change the bars around, i vendor trash without doing it individually searching its piece in my bags... and that's under level 10. I'm going to need more addons later on and there are certainly addons that I won't be able to avoid if I ever resubscribe (which I might, to check out warlords), becasue stock UI doesn't provide that functionality, like it does in SWTOR.

why? becasue Blizzard couldn't be bothered, when addons pick up the slack - changes they do implement take them several years. and then... then patches will happen. next major content patch and i hope and pray that addons I use are still being updated, becasue otherwise, they are broken and my UI etc is back to awful, while I frantically search for replacement. I've been playing since BC. I've gone through that cycle many a time. i love single player addons, but WoW? wow taught me to despise addons in mmos.

and you cannot avoid them. if you want to be even remotely competitive, you HAVE to have them, becasue the game is now designed AROUND you having them. i disagree with encounters in WoW dungeons being subjectively better. they just have more stuff going on and they need to, seeing as raiders - even LFR raiders tend to use dbm. hell, you couldn't even get into a pug OR a guild raid without dbm. not the one that was capable of clearing the content. so Blizzard designs for eventual existence of DBM cues - cluttering up the encounters with mechanics, you don't really need to think about, becasue dbm will tell you exactly when to move, when to interrupt, when to cleanse. and LFR? removes half of those mechanics anyway.

I love raiding in TOR. and I raided heavily in WoW up until Cataclysm. I also tried some of the raids in Cata, but I was more of a dirty casual at that point, only played like 3 months out of entire expansion. pandaria, I only tried Mogushan Vaults outside of the LFR (which is a roflstomp and barely counts). it wasn't anything ground breaking. fun, but NOT significantly better designed than anything I tried in TOR. I'd place them about even.

yes, WoW looks pretty. but so does TOR. different aesthetic, but that's like comparing different art styles and deciding which one is better. you can't. becasue its 100% subjective. yes WoW has weather. never paid attention to it being variable, vs TOR's static weather patterns. its just.. there :/

WoW is a good game. but I kinda giggle when you say its more challenging then TOR. I'd say normal, not lfr raiding is about even between both games in terms of challenge level and leveling? even without boa gear its...nice way of putting it, would be extremely accessible in WoW. bluntly put? so easy, you can do it in your sleep.

and yes, I'm still sad that they removed class specific quests. they could be a pita at times, but they were what made classes feel unique, and they were interesting. not on a level of TOR's personal story interesting, but damn close.

edited to add... and I ended up typing up some of that rant after all. on GSF though... did you say you destroyed the gear? as in... free, bind on legacy gear you could have used on companions, alts, whatever, to transfer mods and all that jazz... and you destroyed it? even though cargo space is pretty cheap if you buy cartel coin version of GTN? O_O

Erasimus's Avatar


Erasimus
01.18.2014 , 12:16 PM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
actualy lack of addons is in my book a huge bonus, rather than a negative.

when i started playing on my free account in WoW... I lasted exactly an hour before i had to start downloading the damn things becasue, without - my UI is awful and i cannot change the bars around, i vendor trash without doing it individually searching its piece in my bags... and that's under level 10. I'm going to need more addons later on and there are certainly addons that I won't be able to avoid if I ever resubscribe (which I might, to check out warlords), becasue stock UI doesn't provide that functionality, like it does in SWTOR.

why? becasue Blizzard couldn't be bothered, when addons pick up the slack - changes they do implement take them several years. and then... then patches will happen. next major content patch and i hope and pray that addons I use are still being updated, becasue otherwise, they are broken and my UI etc is back to awful, while I frantically search for replacement. I've been playing since BC. I've gone through that cycle many a time. i love single player addons, but WoW? wow taught me to despise addons in mmos.

and you cannot avoid them. if you want to be even remotely competitive, you HAVE to have them, becasue the game is now designed AROUND you having them. i disagree with encounters in WoW dungeons being subjectively better. they just have more stuff going on and they need to, seeing as raiders - even LFR raiders tend to use dbm. hell, you couldn't even get into a pug OR a guild raid without dbm. not the one that was capable of clearing the content. so Blizzard designs for eventual existence of DBM cues - cluttering up the encounters with mechanics, you don't really need to think about, becasue dbm will tell you exactly when to move, when to interrupt, when to cleanse. and LFR? removes half of those mechanics anyway.

I love raiding in TOR. and I raided heavily in WoW up until Cataclysm. I also tried some of the raids in Cata, but I was more of a dirty casual at that point, only played like 3 months out of entire expansion. pandaria, I only tried Mogushan Vaults outside of the LFR (which is a roflstomp and barely counts). it wasn't anything ground breaking. fun, but NOT significantly better designed than anything I tried in TOR. I'd place them about even.

yes, WoW looks pretty. but so does TOR. different aesthetic, but that's like comparing different art styles and deciding which one is better. you can't. becasue its 100% subjective. yes WoW has weather. never paid attention to it being variable, vs TOR's static weather patterns. its just.. there :/

WoW is a good game. but I kinda giggle when you say its more challenging then TOR. I'd say normal, not lfr raiding is about even between both games in terms of challenge level and leveling? even without boa gear its...nice way of putting it, would be extremely accessible in WoW. bluntly put? so easy, you can do it in your sleep.

and yes, I'm still sad that they removed class specific quests. they could be a pita at times, but they were what made classes feel unique, and they were interesting. not on a level of TOR's personal story interesting, but damn close.

edited to add... and I ended up typing up some of that rant after all. on GSF though... did you say you destroyed the gear? as in... free, bind on legacy gear you could have used on companions, alts, whatever, to transfer mods and all that jazz... and you destroyed it? even though cargo space is pretty cheap if you buy cartel coin version of GTN? O_O
We'll just have to agree to disagree on the difficulty. I've seen nothing approaching Heroic mode Raid and challenge mode dungeons in SWTOR.

The GSF Gear, well I didn't like the way it looked and it was taking up space so, down the tubes it went If I could have given it away, or better yet sold it, I would have. I did load all of the titles on my characters. Kind of ironic since only one ever did a GSF match
"Give light and the darkness will disappear of itself."

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
01.18.2014 , 12:46 PM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by Erasimus View Post
We'll just have to agree to disagree on the difficulty. I've seen nothing approaching Heroic mode Raid and challenge mode dungeons in SWTOR.

The GSF Gear, well I didn't like the way it looked and it was taking up space so, down the tubes it went If I could have given it away, or better yet sold it, I would have. I did load all of the titles on my characters. Kind of ironic since only one ever did a GSF match
try any nightmare modes? even EC nightmare at lvl 55 is still a major major challenge to complete. especially under 2 hours. I'll give WoW their challenge mode dungeons, TOR doesn't have an equivalent, though lost Island pre nerf and pre Makeb was up there. hell people wipe in it, post nerf at 55.

as for GSF gear, i kept it unopened on most of my characters, but just in case. and since cargo hold space is vastly superior to WoW's personal banks (this by the way is NOT subjective, since in WoW you are limited in size by personal bags, and even the biggest available bag that tends to cost a fortune, still holds less than standard cargo hold bay) - its not like it was making it impossible to store anything else, so... I like having extra sets of moddable gear that can be used on companions or whatever, and they certainly make mod transfers between characters easier.

I loaded up the titles and paint job as well :P and I don't play GSF either. (but I gave up on pet battles very quickly as well, they started to feel like a soul crushing grind at the time when my team reached lvl 6ish? not even being able to get more vanity pets in higher level zones was enough to entice me to continue. so... to each their own again, I know of some people who LOVE pet battles and several of my guildies can be found playing GSF daily, theorycrafting best builds, etc)