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Is SWTOR better than WoW?


Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
11.06.2013 , 04:26 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by ImpactHound View Post
I still disagree with that assessment of the current talent system. When you go thru SWTOR's talent trees, you get 3-4 active spec abilities and a bunch of HP/crit % passives, and a few tweaks to the active abilites you just got(which is equivalent to glyphing for an ability you like). WoW's current talent trees offer you 3-4 active new abilities, often ones that weren't available to all specs before, and cuts the passive points on the inbetweeny levels. Case in point; A feral druid can take treants(which now behave differently as a feral than as a boomkin) and typhoon, both situational spells that were previously the hallmark of being Balance. All specs of Rogues can enjoy Preparation and Shadowstep, without being pigeonholed into Subtlety. The classes that had movespeed bonuses like Hunter and Paladin can use them in any spec as well.

The hybridizing is better than it ever was before, they've just changed the interface and removed the illusion of many divergent options that trees gave. I've explained it to a friend this was verbally when he complained he hated the trees and while my argument made sense to him, he still said he didn't like the way it looked or felt. Which is a valid complaint, and more accurate than broadly saying the talent system sucks. The presentation of it sucks to your traditions and memories. I think it's still a work in progress with room to improve, but way better than the trees were before. I definitely think the levelling process loses something by not having a "point-per-level" breadcrumb of power-creep that makes you feel like you're building your character, but I recognize that it was an illusion.
then we'll agree to disagree. because I cannot get key talents from several different specs.

my main was a shaman. I used to level as resto or hybrid on here. nowadays, I cannot solo as resto at all, its like pulling teeth, I have to go elemental (why not the other spec? because it requires a whole separate set of gear and completely different playstyle, while at least I can reuse my resto set for ele) I use to seamlessly shift between cat and bear as needed, but not so anymore.

the little bonus abilities I get through their "pick one talent per tier" tree don't offer much of a versatility. I cannot mix and match talents anymore. key abilities are set for me.

the only character that sorta kinda maybe felt like a semi hybrid, was my mystweaver monk and even then, it just wasn't quite the same.

I used to play around with my hunters spec like crazy. not.. anymore. especially since a lot of time, abilities that you have to pick from are not much of a choice at all. whatever spec you may play, you still pick the same one, because others are just not good.

that you tell me some of those abilities i can use as any spec? is not a positive for me.

but to each their own. naturally. some people prefer the way WoW does things now. I preferred the way they did it pre cata.

Trollokdamus's Avatar


Trollokdamus
11.07.2013 , 09:40 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by ImpactHound View Post
If it wasn't painfully obvious that you don't know anything about WoW, your opinions of its current state might be valid. As of this post, they're not. You can say "I hate fantasy MMOs," or "I dislike WoW's playerbase or art style," and I wouldn't question you, but you have no idea what happens on the other side of the fence, and it makes you look like a blind raving fanboy.

Games should be played because they have fun gameplay. If you like the story, that's gravy on the side. If there's no gameplay, it ends up being a visual novel, and they're not commercial viable outside of Japan. Or without a lot of sexual elements.
While i absolutely agree with the first part of your post, the second part is... Let's just say, i would correct the "games should be played because they have fun gameplay" part to "games should be played because they are fun". There are games with almost no (or absolutely no) gameplay, the so-called adventure games, which have their own niche and fanbase.
The recent game of such sort i've played was The Stanley Parable. A great thing, if you ask me.
Also, back in the days i was a big fan of the "Petka and Vasily Ivanovich" game series. Great russian humor and atmosphere (at least for a kid whom i was back then). Almost no gameplay, but the story and immersion were so strong, that noone cared about it.

Quote: Originally Posted by MasterPromithes View Post
when Cataclysm wnet live and ignored everything they had established in the last 2 expansions that's when I was fed up.
Could you please elaborate on what was ignored? I honestly do not understand.

Quote: Originally Posted by MasterPromithes View Post
SWTOR is better than WoW, because SWTOR's ability to adhere to and evolve their story is something that Blizzard completely disregarded.
That's strange. Starting from WotLK, i have a strong impression that Blizzard are actually working pretty hard on evolving their game's story. The best example of it is MoP, which is a one big story being told to us, a story which starts from the very first quests on the new continent and ends with the final raid boss being defeated.

ImpactHound's Avatar


ImpactHound
11.07.2013 , 10:12 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Trollokdamus View Post
While i absolutely agree with the first part of your post, the second part is... Let's just say, i would correct the "games should be played because they have fun gameplay" part to "games should be played because they are fun". There are games with almost no (or absolutely no) gameplay, the so-called adventure games, which have their own niche and fanbase.
The recent game of such sort i've played was The Stanley Parable. A great thing, if you ask me.
Also, back in the days i was a big fan of the "Petka and Vasily Ivanovich" game series. Great russian humor and atmosphere (at least for a kid whom i was back then). Almost no gameplay, but the story and immersion were so strong, that noone cared about it.
A game like Monkey Island may not be difficult to play as far as reflexes or response time, but there's problem solving and puzzles that constitute gameplay. On the flipside, a game like Dragon's Lair is not very deep but is all about timing and reactions to sudden stimuli; this is another good game with story. I don't feel like The Stanley Parable is a very good "game" of walking thru corridors. At the very least Portal made you solve puzzles to get to the next creepy wall peeled open or GLaDoS sound clip, and there was actiony segments and bossfights. That's a debate on forums across the web however, some people love it, some don't. I understand where you're coming from and you make articulate points, so kudos to you as a forum poster.

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
11.07.2013 , 06:30 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Trollokdamus View Post
While i absolutely agree with the first part of your post, the second part is... Let's just say, i would correct the "games should be played because they have fun gameplay" part to "games should be played because they are fun". There are games with almost no (or absolutely no) gameplay, the so-called adventure games, which have their own niche and fanbase.
The recent game of such sort i've played was The Stanley Parable. A great thing, if you ask me.
Also, back in the days i was a big fan of the "Petka and Vasily Ivanovich" game series. Great russian humor and atmosphere (at least for a kid whom i was back then). Almost no gameplay, but the story and immersion were so strong, that noone cared about it.


Could you please elaborate on what was ignored? I honestly do not understand.


That's strange. Starting from WotLK, i have a strong impression that Blizzard are actually working pretty hard on evolving their game's story. The best example of it is MoP, which is a one big story being told to us, a story which starts from the very first quests on the new continent and ends with the final raid boss being defeated.
hold on hold ON.

Petka and Vasiliy Ivanovich game series?

such thing exists?

how the hell did I not know? where can I get it?
(unless you grew up on Chapaev and Petka book, movie and countless jokes, you might not understand why I'm so excited)

sorry for a slight derail

P.S. I will never EVER forgive Blizzard writers for what they did to both Jaina and Thrall.

P.P.S. edited to add. portal's gameplay was amazing. genius way to take simple concepts and turn give them such complexity and variations

Callaron's Avatar


Callaron
11.07.2013 , 08:11 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by ImpactHound View Post
While WoW stole the idea of Transmog from TOR's adaptive armor concept, TOR maintains a lead in that area in a big way. Wow was doing transmog on live servers as of September 19th, 2011 before SWTOR even launched. SWTOR was in closed beta at that point, but transmog was developed earlier that year and tested for awhile. Get your facts straight.
WoW stole it from Aion, pretty much a direct copy paste in the way the system works.
Though knowing MMO's, Aion probably got it from some predecessor that I never played (or can't remember).
Thanks for showing us you listen to our feedback, Bioware!
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Ayelinna's Avatar


Ayelinna
11.07.2013 , 08:25 PM | #46
Did wow go free to play in less than a year of launch?

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
11.07.2013 , 11:04 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Ayelinna View Post
Did wow go free to play in less than a year of launch?
at the time WoW came out? idea of f2p payment model was not exactly wide spread to put it mildly. there were also not nearly as many MMO's to chose from and none as casual friendly as WoW.

by the time SWTOR came out - it had example of LOTRO and DDO in front of them - LOTRO especially practically doubled their profits after going "f2p" with optional sub.

f2p =/= failure

last but not least - people forget how absolutely awful WoW launch was. how buggy the game was for a long long time, inaccessible, with ridiculous queues, etc etc. they also forget that there wasn't enough content to get you to lvl 60, so people literally had to grind mobs here and there.

but at the time, it was expected. and at the time, there weren't as many choices. nowadays? if WoW launched nowadays, the way it did back then? I highly doubt it would have survived even half a year.

ImpactHound's Avatar


ImpactHound
11.08.2013 , 08:40 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Callaron View Post
WoW stole it from Aion, pretty much a direct copy paste in the way the system works.
Though knowing MMO's, Aion probably got it from some predecessor that I never played (or can't remember).
If you want to go down the chain, Aion got it from LOTRO.


Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post

they also forget that there wasn't enough content to get you to lvl 60, so people literally had to grind mobs here and there.
It was assumed that you'd do instances several times for gear because the quest rewards throughout the game overall were completely useless. That made up the exp for me, personally. level 50-60 was admittedly shallow with the outright questing, but there was enough there, it was just all instance quests that were EXTREMELY hard to find, let alone do. I'm probably one of 10 people or less on my server that ever got an Eggscilloscope, the item that freezes eggs in the famous Leeroy Jenkins room to prevent that very scenario from happening.

Callaron's Avatar


Callaron
11.08.2013 , 08:44 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by ImpactHound View Post
If you want to go down thechain, Aion got it from LOTRO.
That'd fall into the category of MMO's I never tried - but I figured they got it somewhere.
Thanks for showing us you listen to our feedback, Bioware!
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ImpactHound's Avatar


ImpactHound
11.08.2013 , 08:46 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Callaron View Post
That'd fall into the category of MMO's I never tried - but I figured they got it somewhere.
they did it best, because you didn't need to visit an NPC to lock graphics on, it was handled with a vanity tab on the character sheet and it kept the graphic item from cluttering up your bank or inventory. LOTRO did a lot of nice QoL innovations, like group phasing and musical instruments first.