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Shouldn't operative concealment be equal to assassin deception?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Shouldn't operative concealment be equal to assassin deception?

benovide's Avatar


benovide
11.02.2013 , 11:02 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Racter View Post
What the serious **** are you mouth breathers talking about? Both are stealth burst classes. Operatives suck *** comparatively because bads like these kids cried at launch that their level 11 trooper was getting two shot by the 50 op in full bm with adrenals and relics up so they nerfed the piss out of it. Assassins started out crappy and got the survivability buffs we need back in 1.7, then got the burst damage we used to have in 2.0.

Meanwhile, we got a gap closer that is unusable in combat, does nothing when snared and best case scenario takes a fifth of our energy away. Oh, and crit got nerfed hard. Aaaaannnddd health pools basically doubled. Seems legit.
That is legit, it's called Balance.

Operator is burst DPS, with the range it better fits with the skirmisher playstyle.

Ottoattack's Avatar


Ottoattack
11.04.2013 , 04:47 PM | #12
Talking purely from PvP perspective, concealment sucks on all ends. Their burst aint that strong, their DCDs are pathetic (and that putting it nicely) and they have no utility aside from the aoe mezz. Deceptions sins are way better, better burst, DCDs and utilities. Should concealment operative and deception sin be equal? No. They are supposed to fulfill different roles, but they do not and deception sin is substantially better at performing the stealthy burster.

dakisback's Avatar


dakisback
11.04.2013 , 05:02 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by benovide View Post
That is legit, it's called Balance.

Operator is burst DPS, with the range it better fits with the skirmisher playstyle.
You do know that Assassins have two 30 meter abilities as well right? Force Lightning(Recklessness) and Force Slow.

You can only call an operative ranged if they are lethality 'cause while we are closing the 30m gap we can use our dots.
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Monterone's Avatar


Monterone
11.09.2013 , 04:31 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by dakisback View Post
You do know that Assassins have two 30 meter abilities as well right? Force Lightning(Recklessness) and Force Slow.

You can only call an operative ranged if they are lethality 'cause while we are closing the 30m gap we can use our dots.
Force Slow is 10m. The only ability Deception gets that's 30m, as you pointed out, is Force Lightning, and only when Recklessness if up. If you overextend from a node and have a minute left on Recklessness, good luck interrupting that node.
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Danylia's Avatar


Danylia
11.09.2013 , 05:11 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by benovide View Post
I have Concealment Spec on my Operative, Focusing on Melee with the Operative is, and always has been suicide since the tree was finalized. It's purely defensive in PVP for when Melee players get in close to you. It isn't meant to be the main mode of attack.

The purpose is to aid you in getting into a better firing position. And defending yourself when you get zergged. Nothing more, and has never been intended to be equal in offensive ability as the Assassins Deception Ability.
Just to be sure I understand you correctly: are you saying that as a Concealment Operative, the meele attacts are there to allow you to build a range so you can continue using Rifle Shot, Snipe and Explosive Probe, which should be the main part of your DPS?
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Nateous's Avatar


Nateous
11.14.2013 , 10:11 AM | #16
benovide
It's clear to me by your comments that either a) you work with ith the same PR people as does BW. B) you have never played a cealment op/scrapper in your life or c) was one of the post launch "bads" that cried foul to operatives "OP - ness" and the root cause of why the class was nerfed to near non-existence. Why you feel a light armored, stealth melee should out perform a medium armored stealth melee in every facet boggles my mind. Even more so the fact that you are not the only assassin to think so. Your words are a cancer that hinders balance and you don't even realize it.

-"heal to full". Can be done on medic tree only. No DPS op can h2f in this current state. Ever. Our heals are to costly and not immune to interrupts. At best we can probably get 1 maybe 2off for a whopping 3k? Watch out now!
-"concealment is purely defensive ". Burst classes are offensive by nature. What your describing is tactical design I. E. Strategy. Yes we can pick our fights and our targets but that's only because we have no other choice.
-" stun abilities that allow you to recloak quickly". Lol what ? The prevalence of age damage and a broken stealth mechanic have prevented this since beta. At best we have 1 "recloak abilty" which is only useable one every two minutes. And it is both an offensive and lackluster defensive cooldown. While assassin and even marauders have a better possibility to re-start and re-engage, than we do.
-"and escape". Slows, roots, mezzes, stuns.... I'll even go further than that, highly costly roll ability which does nothing and our turret class counterpart, is leaps and bounds better. You try and escape all this from 4m.

-"operative is a skirmisher not a brawler". You realize by definition and historical context that range DPS are more skirmishers than ops are? Let that sink in a bit. When in history was a sole person tasked with going into the front lines, starring up trouble and getting out alive? We are scrappers not martyrs. But that are countless examples of archers, slingshotters, cannons, etc whose sole purpose is to scatter the infantry.

What it boils down to is this, if the scrapper was essentially a support class then it would be expected to perform a certain way. But it's not. The nature of damage types and crowd control and developer incompetence prevents it from having the most basic of features. Features that All melee should have. No one is asking for ops to be OP again. We are simple asking to be competitive and on an even footing again. Currently it is not.

Ridickilis's Avatar


Ridickilis
11.14.2013 , 10:22 AM | #17
Guys, I don't know why you're bothering.

Anyone who states that concealment is a ranged class/spec, and that the vibroknife is a last resort, when describing a tree that revolves around the use of a vibroknife as a central ability and the 36 point talent in the tree is there to augment said vibroknife, the person has either never played the spec or is trolling. Plain and simple.

There are 22 points to spend in the tree that revolve around buffing the various 4m knife attacks, not even counting the 8 stealth talents or 2 in pin down that I would say further augment getting within melee range and setting up more knife attacks.

ThreeLeggedCow's Avatar


ThreeLeggedCow
11.18.2013 , 07:00 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by benovide View Post
Since game launch and reorgenization of the classes, Operatives and Assassins have been geared towards completely different roles. The Assassin is, and was never meant to be the equiv to an Op and vice-versa.

The concealment is purely defensive, to go in, and ****. Hense the stun abilities that allow you to recloak quickly after distancing or escaping from a situation, and then allowing you to go back into it.

The Deception Ability is to gear up the Assassin to close with and begin battle.

The Concealment Ability tree is to allow movement into position to harrass/skrimish the fight. Either drawing the idiot player who chases him into Snipers/Marauders/Mercs, or to drag them into an ambush between other Ops.

Operative is a Skirmisher, not a Brawler.

If you can't understand the playstyle differences between Ranged and Melee DPS Classes, and the relationships between Melee DPS classes and relationships between Ranged DPS classes, and the relationships they have between Ranged and Melee, you need to learn how to actually play the game.

This argument is as stupid as a Jedi Guardian crying how he can't DPS like a Sentinal, or why a Marauder can't do crap against the Sniper.

This is a huge lack of knowledge of gameplay mechanics.
^Is this guy for real?

The stupidity of your comment has just FLOORED me. Concealment is NOT a melee spec? This is like saying Advanced Prototype Powertechs are "not melee". All the operatives hard hitting abilities are up close. I suppose you are one of "those" operatives that sits in cover and spams snipe then i take it?

Wainamoinen's Avatar


Wainamoinen
11.19.2013 , 07:42 AM | #19
To "Concealment not a melee class".

You reckon you've played Concealment. I can only assume you've played Concealment in warzones up to about level 30. I'd hate to think someone so badly misguided was trying to play Concelament in level 55 warzones.

edit: removal of most astounded, sarcastic bewilderment.
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Haystak's Avatar


Haystak
11.19.2013 , 12:03 PM | #20
I think the "operative/scoundrel is a ranged class" guy might be on to something though. Think about all of our ranged abilities that we have in comparison. They would in fact be much more useful if they actually did damage. How many 10+ meter abilties do we just not use after level 36 because the damage is atrocious and/or the requirements are to expensive

Quickshot(not enough damage and costs to much energy)
Blaster volley(name might be wrong but its the conal ability that requires upperhand to use)
Thermal Grenade(I use it all the time, but its more of a distanced aoe fluffer than an actual "im gonna kill you" ability.)
sabotage charge(I call it the tebow charge as we now have to kneel to use it...apparently praying gives us the abiltiy to throw stuff like a frisbee)
charged burst(The tebow charge) does just about as much damage as quick shot, up to 30m just has a castbar and is a pretty big energy hog.
Flurry of bolts(is only used because it free mostly)

Now if these abilties were changed to be less costly to use and did some nice damage, I might actually use them, and then, and only then would I consider scoundrel/scrapper to even be close to a ranged class.
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