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1 Non-Fight puzzle OP?


Bowenator's Avatar


Bowenator
10.24.2013 , 11:03 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Anysao View Post
I think you would be better suited at a game like Call of Duty.
This. Or go play Force Unleashed.

Quote: Originally Posted by Leadspitndragon View Post
It's to bloody many steps I just want to kill things and feel like a bad*** sith!
It's also called every trash pull in the ops. Very few require any sort of CC or strategy, especially in the older ops. Go smash spec and roll your face on the keyboard for win.

Quote: Originally Posted by Leadspitndragon View Post
I expect many flame responses telling me things like "if I don't like it don't play it" and such but the point is not that I'm trying to put down this style that other people like it's that I'd like an alternative style that doesn't irk me so bloody much
You are playing a game that is necessarily designed as such for balance. You ordered a car and are wondering why there's no wings and a propeller because you would prefer to fly instead of drive.
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Leadspitndragon's Avatar


Leadspitndragon
10.25.2013 , 04:28 AM | #12
I see now describing what I had envisioned is a bit difficult, apologies in advance if the post goes long. I didn't mean an OP with like a single massive mob that once you kill it's over. I was meaning more like when an enemy enters a room the soldiers in there wouldn't just stand in their little groups waiting for you to come over to them they would all attack you en masse. In the current mechanics that wouldn't work cause more than 1 group of enemies and the team is dead cause all the enemies are about the same level as the players.

However in a hypothetical "real world" situation not every enemy at that "base" would be as good as the "crack squad" which is suppose to be the OP group. In fact most of them would be worse than trash mobs as they are nothing but "grunt" soldiers there mainly to act as fodder to slow the enemies advance. Simply put they don't do much damage or have much health but there are a lot of them. The story objective being you clear the room then use some device and have to guard the person using it from the more skilled enemies who are responding to the alert the fodder enemies sent out.

There would be a more diverse tier system to divide the enemies into. IE grunts, strong, hard, elites, under-bosses, mini bosses, big bosses, ect. We do have this now in the OP though the range is very limited cause they want every mob to be some what of a fight for the OPs group.

In addition to a more diverse leveling of enemies more practical elements to a fight would be nice, the AOE at people's feet is useful but an old gimmick now. Using more story driven elements would make it more fun such as explaining why players have to fight a boss a certain way instead of everyone enter the room and anyone who's done it before just listing off the things to do or avoid.

Since the way the game is designed you have like 5 attacks for just how to fire a gun or swing a sword they make rules like "use this attack here and don't use that attack there". Which if you are a healer for example can mess up your rotation or cost time when you are trying to heal someone resulting in you either letting someone die or missing the mark for an interrupt and the whole team takes a massive hit.

Those that like or love the complex OPs fights I'm not saying take them away just give people (like me) who don't enjoy an overly complex slugfest in an OP, a OP that they can enjoy as much as you enjoy your OPs.

SDconqueror's Avatar


SDconqueror
10.25.2013 , 06:10 AM | #13
Now that last post of yours is actually not that bad of an idea.

But they will never make an OPs like that just to please a fraction of the players looking for something a little different... it's not in the nature of the game. But I can very much picture one boss fight that can require similar mechanics. Draxus is probably the closest thing to this as well as the early part of Corruptor Zero.

I can very well imagine one boss mechanic where you seemingly are on some sort of battlefield and the commander sends waves at you. OPs would have to be split into 2 groups, one handling the boss (must be killed to stop waves) and the other group handling massive waves with maybe 1 or 2 strong elites mini bosses (with mechanics of their own) and a **** load of weak mobs.

This is actually a perfect setting for an OPs boss if we ever get back to empire vs republic content. (imagine waves of republic commando's and a couple of jedi elites <3).. and the boss would be some Jedi Master, of the jedi council.

Anyway, always good to dream a bit.

SDconqueror's Avatar


SDconqueror
10.25.2013 , 06:25 AM | #14
Okay i'm on a roll, let's keep up the dreaming:

Same setting as stated above but its mix-match of PVE/PVP.. it could be like a 1 Boss operation like TC:

8 vs 8.. Reps and Empire massive Arena, with waves of republic troopers and commando's (once again with added mechanics to it) and the goal is to split up ops group and confront other players while slashing down rep troopers. The winning team could get a chest and there goes the roll of the item based on lvl of difficulty. HM would just make the Rep/Emp troopers/commando's harder and would have added mechanics.

However let's not for the PVP'ers. Two different versions: you enter the PVE version, you have to be in PVE gear ---- and vice versa. Maybe the reward system would be different for PVPers, WZ comms + valor, the usual.. and PVEers get a chance at a roll over a piece of loot (can only be done once a week if your team won, however, if you lose you can keep going).

Leadspitndragon's Avatar


Leadspitndragon
10.26.2013 , 06:09 AM | #15
Yes those ideas are both a lot closer to what I've envisioned compared to the current style of OP's combat. A few more story elements between fights, a fight with more simplistic requirements for victory, and just up the number of weak enemies to keep the challenge closer to the more complex fights.

There are a lot of ways it could be done focusing first on the story part of why you are there and exactly what your objectives are. Then branch the ideas out into how do you simulate what would happen on a real battlefield with the mechanics the game allows.

It would be over simplified to say this but think of your favorite FP with twice the enemies and a more active (almost PVP paced) combat, and more environmental elements and less combat elements such as a shield over the boss instead of constantly interrupting 3 of his like 6 attacks.

The whole point being give the players @ the end game levels the feeling like they are truly the elites in the galaxy instead of that they are as just strong as everyone else. For example on the Imp side you got winners of the great hunt, members of the dark council, the emperor's wraths, and some of the best spies in the galaxy but every grunt the enemies throw at you in a OP are (roughly) just as skilled and powerful as you are. See you need a few OPs where the enemy knows they (or at least anyone outside the big boss) can't match you in skill but hope to beat you with sheer numbers (but you are just too good for that) and that is the conflict skill VS numbers.

Let all those juggs and mara's cut a path through the hoard of melee enemies while the ranged DPS are cutting down the ranged enemies, the assassins/other stealthers are sneaking around turning the enemy turrets on their masters, and of course healers are keeping everyone alive. That would be an example of a like open area battle like a courtyard before breaching the main door of the enemy stronghold.

You could also do something like Dark fortress where the team has to split up for things like taking out the big machines that keep the big bosses chamber door locked. Each location could have a mini boss where you don't need a specific combo of classes to beat it but have something simple like it's a big droid with repair drones and if you kill the drones it will die faster. Instead of it sending out mobs with special requirement on how to fight each mob. An idea for a 8 man it would be 2 tanks, 2 heals, and 4 DPS, (16 man just double that) so that if the team has to split up you could still have a full group of 1 tank 2 DPS and 1 healer to take each route. Then make each route like a mini FP with it's own objective like disable the communications station or destroy the landing pad to prevent reinforcements. Then each of the separate 4 man groups can regroup outside the next large scale fight or boss areas.

Like I said it's an OP about making the players feel like the are the gods in a galaxy of mortals with that whole "I'm in a movie" feeling to the action.

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
10.26.2013 , 06:36 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Leadspitndragon View Post
The OP's are needed for the best comms to get the best gear but I can not begin to describe how sick I am of the fight puzzle style.
Switch over to DDO. Lots of fun there, regarding puzzles - and TRAPS ! Yes ! Real, proper TRAPS !
With proper skills to detect & disarm them !
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

Dawginole's Avatar


Dawginole
10.27.2013 , 06:53 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
maybe you should try to pvp?
Final Fantasy XI managed to have instances in which part of one of the major cities would close down and feature up to 300 npc mobs plus 100 pc's in coordinated battle every three hours. Maybe BW devs aren't capable of doing anything like the stuff FFXI and Everquest were doing 10 years ago. /shrug

ScarletBlaze's Avatar


ScarletBlaze
10.27.2013 , 08:02 PM | #18
Quote:
Leadspitndragon;6888448]1

Let all those juggs and mara's cut a path through the hoard of melee enemies while the ranged DPS are cutting down the ranged enemies, the assassins/other stealthers are sneaking around turning the enemy turrets on their masters, and of course healers are keeping everyone alive. That would be an example of a like open area battle like a courtyard before breaching the main door of the enemy stronghold.
While this sounds like a good idea, for a medic this is a headache. You have everyone going in different directions and the medic trying to figure out where a person is to heal. If one person is on one side of the room and another is on the opposite side, who do we heal first.

We only have a set amount of range to heal from and if you are too far from a medic we can't heal you.
A southern girl is a girl who knows full well that she can open a door for herself but prefers for the gentleman to do it because it demonstrates a sense of respect. Current Guild Roleplay: Redemption: The battle of Xa Fel https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...ps/r-1rAjOuo30

Mistress_Ivi's Avatar


Mistress_Ivi
10.27.2013 , 08:23 PM | #19
I would agree to this, on the condition that the "main" operation is essentially to kill a VIP that is not particually that strong but has political power or needs to die because they know something and it really is that simple.

For example, we'll go with an assault type run (24 man ops).

1337 strong opponents +10% elite +5% champion.
+4 Mini-boss style targets.

Objectives to win "assault" is to kill 60% of the above AND the VIP inorder to force a tactical retreat of the army.

Side objectives include - kill the "real" boss types that are within the city - kill them all for a bonus reward of Ultimate comms and loot chest that contains the highest rating loot for the mode. (Mainhand / chest etc)

So tank spankers can finish the run and kill stuff; have a small army with them and not think... whilst 8 members of the group could split off and do their own thing killing the side objectives.

Whadd'ya think?
Former SWG Player and Bloody Proud of it!

Dawginole's Avatar


Dawginole
10.27.2013 , 11:13 PM | #20
All these suggestions are still "operations" and still instanced content. The thing that bothers me about SWTOR end game is that it seems that the devs just want to have operations and flashpoints and daily areas. It's time for something new. I'm not saying stop making new ops, but a new game type needs to be added. And it's time for some real world dynamic content. Stuff that happens on the planets and draws 55's back to those places and happens out in the open.