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Madness Dps in Arena, Fully Viable

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Madness Dps in Arena, Fully Viable

AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
10.22.2013 , 03:13 PM | #11
I just feel he is trying to overplay it's "viability". The spec has quite a fair share of difficulties and I feel against higher level play it would suffer more than it does currently.

For example assume that merc/sorc healer was a more common arena choice. Assuming you had a good one you could take advantage of full madness's force regen system. Have the healer put a focus target on the madness sorc and focus interrupt force lighting casts (resto shamman style). That would deprive a lot of burst from the spec and at the same time harm its regen mechanic. (which is already bad to begin with)

After all the spec doesn't really have a lot of burst and DOT aoe pressure harms your ability to use mez in combat. It primarily works as a tank killer due to the nature of guard. This is nice because most tanks don't know when to take guard off. I guess after all it comes down to how you define "viable".

I personally view the spec as usable but certainly not competitively optimal.
Depreva (Sith Sorcerer) - Prophecy of the Five-

AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
10.22.2013 , 03:13 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by orryko View Post
i agree with you. madness buffs are stupid because hardly anyone dispels as is, and it only ensures that lightning stands no chance against madness 1v1, if they ever did before (yes i know, not a 1v1 game)

i also agree it will force more people to think outside the box instead of double derp pt or smash train.

vengeance/lightning and deception/lightning can already beat most setups, just not enough good players to run it nor people willing to try.

that's my biggest concern...how many good people are really left? how many will come back? playing as my merc or sorc, i have a very limited group of people i can run with on pot5.
Never played vengeance lightning, but deception lightning is a blast with a good sin!
Depreva (Sith Sorcerer) - Prophecy of the Five-

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
10.22.2013 , 03:26 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by orryko View Post
just like the streams i linked before.

excellent sorcs/ranged playing with a tank who knows how to support and a great healer = win

it only feels op and viable because our little group is the one doing it. there are lots of other double sorc, ranged combos that get destroyed

the question i posed in another thread is if bioware should buff sorcs/ranged in general, which would make people like us jesus, or if they should buff based on everyone else who is struggling and doesn't have excellent teammates
I've watched some of the arenas battles you had guys and let me firstly clarify that your play and mudclots are of the highest level. However, you have an amazing healer and tank. There is one orbital station arena that the sorc is taking heavy damage, and no there is no kiting he is being in the middle of 3 dps getting heavy damage. He survives for sooooo long due to the amazing skills of your scoundrel healer. But most importantly is that during this orbital station round his dps is very very low and that's not his fault but simply a clear demonstration of how easy it is to shutdown a caster. Put some other class in his place and not only your healer would have less pressure but also your team would have actually been able to dps them down. In some other arenas I see mudclot facetanking people due to fast guard swapping and amazing healing again. Don't get me wrong, I said at start that your play is excellent but you have some outstanding support.

Now, 99.9% of the sarcs don't really have this kind of support, and of course you wouldn't expect to have it in solo qing. IMO sarcs require too much babysitting, are taking too much damage, and cannot perform under pressure. Even with guard and heals their effectiveness is still less than a lot of other classes.

orryko's Avatar


orryko
10.22.2013 , 03:40 PM | #14
i meant to respond to your post before music.

what i wanted to say was, a lot of playing as ranged dps is knowing when to stand still and burst, and when to run. in a couple of the vids when i was on my sorc, you will see us score kills when i ws <20%. i could have been executed but based on other things i knew it was a good/only chance to land a kill.

so yes, you obviously need a good tank and healer and also a teammate who supports you and gives you time to cast. also in the double sorc video, we were constantly doing root knockback for each other when we were switching targets.

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
10.22.2013 , 04:03 PM | #15
Yes don't misunderstand me, your skills guys are high. I was trying to highlight that even some of the best ranged in such heavy conditions of focus how they suffer and it would be even worse without team support. Take some of the best sents, vans or shads for example and put them on the same spot, do you think they would be shutdown in such way? And I agree one of my best friends in an arena can be another sage or ranged who knows how to cover each other together. What I'm trying to highlight is that IMO no class should be dependent to others to the extend sarcs are. I just think with some minor adjustments they could be more independent and harder to shutdown, hopefully reducing the current situation in which constantly the plan is to target a sarc first.

orryko's Avatar


orryko
10.22.2013 , 04:08 PM | #16
oh i didn't take your comments as a slight or anything

my whole concern is if they buff sorcs too much and nerf melee. not that it wouldn't be nice to be fotm for a bit, but it will kill off the already dying population

the majority of gamers don't want a challenge, or you wouldn't already see so many pts, maras, op healers, etc

also, more people would be willing to try crazy comps, or put in the work to make them good

i'm hopeful for better balance but we'll see...

Xeraz's Avatar


Xeraz
10.22.2013 , 04:12 PM | #17
This is the reason I linked the multiple videos. In all three videos we ran different comps.

In Mudclot's stream it was Lethality Sniper, Madness Sorc, Immortal Jugg and Medicine Operative.
In Thurinlore's stream it was triple Madness Dps with Merc Healer
In Glory's stream it was Double Madness, Marksman Sniper and Merc Healer.

My main point on this- Two of the three videos ran WITHOUT a Tank. (aka no guard or taunts) Additionally two of the three videos ran without an Operative Healer.

Now I continue to see the argument that, "Even if it works for them it doesn't work for everyone else." This is possible but isn't it at least worth a try? I mean, if everyone who plays this game is equally terrible then doesn't that mean the Madness Sorcs playing would be just as terrible as the fotm classes?
"Who I am is not important, my message is."

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
10.22.2013 , 04:15 PM | #18
I agree. Small adjustments such as egress speed by default and bubble armor on its own gcd for utility would be great for dps spec. The healing spec is not shining due to scounds being kind of impossible to shutdown, but otherwise it is in a pretty balanced spot IMO with the exception of sac.

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
10.22.2013 , 04:24 PM | #19
Oh on doubt. I like playing in teams of good ranged than in teams with good melee cause most of the time they simply charge forward without paying attention what is happening on the back . But if you team up with inexperienced ranged... I had a slinger complaing to me that I pulled him out of the focus of two vanguards claiming I spoilt his orbital cast.

orryko's Avatar


orryko
10.22.2013 , 04:31 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Xeraz View Post
This is the reason I linked the multiple videos. In all three videos we ran different comps.

In Mudclot's stream it was Lethality Sniper, Madness Sorc, Immortal Jugg and Medicine Operative.
In Thurinlore's stream it was triple Madness Dps with Merc Healer
In Glory's stream it was Double Madness, Marksman Sniper and Merc Healer.

My main point on this- Two of the three videos ran WITHOUT a Tank. (aka no guard or taunts) Additionally two of the three videos ran without an Operative Healer.

Now I continue to see the argument that, "Even if it works for them it doesn't work for everyone else." This is possible but isn't it at least worth a try? I mean, if everyone who plays this game is equally terrible then doesn't that mean the Madness Sorcs playing would be just as terrible as the fotm classes?
possible but highly unlikely due to less defensive ability, and requiring too much know-how and focus to do the same things as a melee class