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Why if the tank can't hold agro, it is their fault ?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Why if the tank can't hold agro, it is their fault ?

kennethdale's Avatar


kennethdale
10.23.2013 , 12:43 AM | #31
The biggest threat issue I've had lately isn't on my tank; its my Pyro merc. If I push my opener, ill pull threat without a guard. Fine, all well and good. So I don't push 100% and don't get to maximize my epeen. Or even in my raid group I am our #1 guarded dps (over a carnage Mara and a hybrid sniper). But them in PuGs (where I typically practice my real world rotation) unless the tank knows me I don't get guarded which means I'm not pushing and subsequently no actually practicing. It doesn't matter if/when I threat drop since my DoTs are still ticking and in a few GCDs unless the tank again knows me and taunted its going to come right back to me. Has anyone else been seeing this issue with pyro Mercs in particular?
55 Mercenary { Drekevac } rDPS || 55 Marauder { Kryu } mDPS
55 Sorcerer { Jahaerys } Heal
55 Juggernaut { Caryu } Tank || 55 Assassin { Vellys } Tank

HBCentaurion's Avatar


HBCentaurion
10.23.2013 , 03:11 AM | #32
I don't see how you guys are constantly holding aggro without taunts. The group I run with have several Dread Forged pieces and are putting out 2.9-3k+ DPS and I need to taunt in my opening rotation in order to keep aggro. If one of the DPS' gets a lucky roll with a lot crits, they are going to pull aggro off me unless I have taunted in my opening rotation.

Grumpftard's Avatar


Grumpftard
10.23.2013 , 03:38 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Joshthecook View Post
a bunch of words......the group I run with gives me two GCD's before they begin attacking ...more words....when I am on my Guardian or dpsing for one, we wait till after Guardian Slash or even Blade Storm.....then lots'a other words
Does...
Not...
Compute...

This is just my personal pet peeve, but to me, that is unacceptable. If my DPS are having to sit there doing nothing and waiting on me to build some threat first, then I am not doing my job. My cue to pull the boss and start the encounter is our sniper's Orbital Strike.

I know there are a lot of people that have "a thing" against using taunts in the rotation, and that's fine and dandy, but it's being compensated for somewhere else....either through gear disparity, bad DPS, DPS holding back, not running max content, or something. Regardless of how the dues are getting paid, it's there somewhere, and by not maximizing your potential with taunting in the rotation, you are doing a disservice to your DPS.

And now I want to plant an evil little bug in your mind..... (I'm no KBN, but I can do the mathzes on this one)
4 DPS @ 2.5 - 3k DPS = 10,000 -12,000 DPS
10-12k DPS * 3 sec (2GCDs) = 30,000 - 36,000 damage lost
I just wanted to throw that out there so that the next time a group wipes and the boss only has 30-36k health left...
people can look back at this and cuss my arse out for being a douchebag.
MUWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
TORVA NEX! (The Site) (The Video)
"You don't have to say more than that!!"
Grumpf =Tankasin / G'rumpf =Mara / Gru'mpf =Jugg / Grum'pf =P-Tech
Grump'f =Shadow / G'rump'f =Scoundrel / Gr'umpf =Operative / Jei'Dahl =Merc

Panzerfire's Avatar


Panzerfire
10.23.2013 , 09:32 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Grumpftard View Post
Does...
Not...
Compute...

This is just my personal pet peeve, but to me, that is unacceptable. If my DPS are having to sit there doing nothing and waiting on me to build some threat first, then I am not doing my job. My cue to pull the boss and start the encounter is our sniper's Orbital Strike.

I know there are a lot of people that have "a thing" against using taunts in the rotation, and that's fine and dandy, but it's being compensated for somewhere else....either through gear disparity, bad DPS, DPS holding back, not running max content, or something. Regardless of how the dues are getting paid, it's there somewhere, and by not maximizing your potential with taunting in the rotation, you are doing a disservice to your DPS.

And now I want to plant an evil little bug in your mind..... (I'm no KBN, but I can do the mathzes on this one)
4 DPS @ 2.5 - 3k DPS = 10,000 -12,000 DPS
10-12k DPS * 3 sec (2GCDs) = 30,000 - 36,000 damage lost
I just wanted to throw that out there so that the next time a group wipes and the boss only has 30-36k health left...
people can look back at this and cuss my arse out for being a douchebag.
MUWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Pfff if you die with the boss at 30-36k health left you need more marauders with bloodthirst!
Anyway, all current content allows for both tanks to initiate with taunts and rotate up to 6 taunts in a row.
Yes even Tyrans, Raptus and the Dread Council, Brontes will have her 4 stacks on you and the other tank can taunt.
If tanks are unable to hold aggro on their own they should cooperate and hold aggro together, if two tanks lose aggro even with 6 back to back taunts then they are undergeared or missing basic knowledge about their class and rotations.

Joshthecook's Avatar


Joshthecook
10.23.2013 , 11:54 AM | #35
I do not have an issue with using a taunt and if it helps out the raid group I am all for putting it my rotation and do so when I am on my Guardian. We don't have an issue hitting enrage timers generally speaking so if a wipe occurs it is generally due to mechanics than lack of dps. One of the reasons I read the forums is to improve my game play and understand the game better. Sorry for my wall of text.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
10.23.2013 , 12:35 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Joshthecook View Post
I do not have an issue with using a taunt and if it helps out the raid group I am all for putting it my rotation and do so when I am on my Guardian. We don't have an issue hitting enrage timers generally speaking so if a wipe occurs it is generally due to mechanics than lack of dps. One of the reasons I read the forums is to improve my game play and understand the game better. Sorry for my wall of text.
I have to use a taunt in my opener, or I'll lose agro. I actually have to save one of my taunts when I tank Thrasher in Nightmare Mode, and it is nail bitingly terrifying, because if I get any misses at all, my DPS will pull. The DPS on Thrasher is tight enough that we have to open VERY hard and I can't really pre-pull. It's worth noting that the DPS I run with are good enough that, due to the fact that there are only two guards to go around, I am unable to guard a DPS pulling a 3.1k and another DPS pulling a flat 3k (since the other two are both higher and higher up front burst).

I'm not exactly sure how you could reliably hold agro in the opener without taunt fluffing, given that most good DPS are opening between 4k and 6k DPS.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

Grumpftard's Avatar


Grumpftard
10.23.2013 , 04:40 PM | #37
@ Josh....please don't take that wrong... I wasn't really aiming for your head there
I did catch where you said that you do on one tank but not so much on the other. It was meant as more of a blanket statement, because I have come across a lot of people who are totally of the mind set that taunts are supposed to be used only as the start button or if a DPS pulls. And some of them have been so adamant that they will defend this theory with the lovely statement of "If you have to taunt in your rotation then L2P, noob!"


Quote: Originally Posted by Joshthecook View Post
words, words..... Sorry for my wall of text.
Don't EVER be sorry for walls of text
I LOVE walls of text.
I just never quote the whole wall.
TORVA NEX! (The Site) (The Video)
"You don't have to say more than that!!"
Grumpf =Tankasin / G'rumpf =Mara / Gru'mpf =Jugg / Grum'pf =P-Tech
Grump'f =Shadow / G'rump'f =Scoundrel / Gr'umpf =Operative / Jei'Dahl =Merc

Grumpftard's Avatar


Grumpftard
10.23.2013 , 04:48 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Panzerfire View Post
Pfff if you die with the boss at 30-36k health left you need more marauders with bloodthirst!
Yeah...you joke....that crap happened last night going into phase 3 on Dread Master Cyphilis. Healer wound up with the red circle and brought it with him into the Orange.....that started one hell of a chain reaction and Cyph got away with 9k health. Talk about mad, lol!
TORVA NEX! (The Site) (The Video)
"You don't have to say more than that!!"
Grumpf =Tankasin / G'rumpf =Mara / Gru'mpf =Jugg / Grum'pf =P-Tech
Grump'f =Shadow / G'rump'f =Scoundrel / Gr'umpf =Operative / Jei'Dahl =Merc

Panzerfire's Avatar


Panzerfire
10.23.2013 , 08:01 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Grumpftard View Post
Yeah...you joke....that crap happened last night going into phase 3 on Dread Master Cyphilis. Healer wound up with the red circle and brought it with him into the Orange.....that started one hell of a chain reaction and Cyph got away with 9k health. Talk about mad, lol!
I take it the chain reaction involved one or mutliple dps dropping like flies? But yeah the red aoe into orange portal on phase 3 is hilarious and it makes the healers scream like little girls.

Panzerfire's Avatar


Panzerfire
10.23.2013 , 08:07 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
I actually have to save one of my taunts when I tank Thrasher in Nightmare Mode,
What I think is optimal on this:
Tank A, Tank B.

A starts with normal opener + ST (single taunt).
B uses ST in place of A's AoE taunt in the opener.
A uses ST.
Snipers spawn.
A uses AoE on snipers.
B uses AoE to taunt Thrasher, we use this in case Thrasher targets A and starts roaring, B then has ST to get him back. B's AoE will be up for 2nd sniper group.

I actually don't know what happens after Thrasher roars once at the tank upstairs, he might turn to the tank downstairs.