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What will be the intended effect of the new Warding relict?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
What will be the intended effect of the new Warding relict?

Zhaaratustra's Avatar


Zhaaratustra
10.14.2013 , 10:32 AM | #1
In the german translation there are two possibilities for the effect. It states that it (the PvP one) will absorb 1012 for 6 secs, which could mean that it absorbs 1012 damage from every attack during this 6 secs or that it absorbs just 1012 damage.

The second effect seems not right to me because 1k damage within 40 secs of internal cool down means nothing to an tank. So I nterpret it in the first way meaning that 1012 damage is absorbed on every attack during the 6 secs based on the current bugged state.

Does the description in english is more clear or do we have to wait until BW fixed it?
Avistyn
~~Dark Society~~
Teamlead SWToR section

THoK-Zeus's Avatar


THoK-Zeus
10.14.2013 , 10:49 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Zhaaratustra View Post
In the german translation there are two possibilities for the effect. It states that it (the PvP one) will absorb 1012 for 6 secs, which could mean that it absorbs 1012 damage from every attack during this 6 secs or that it absorbs just 1012 damage.

The second effect seems not right to me because 1k damage within 40 secs of internal cool down means nothing to an tank. So I nterpret it in the first way meaning that 1012 damage is absorbed on every attack during the 6 secs based on the current bugged state.

Does the description in english is more clear or do we have to wait until BW fixed it?
The second effect is as far as i read it the correct one. And no, 1,36k absorbed dmg is more then the other relics are doing. 550 absorb/defense rating needs quite a lot of incoming damage to alone prevent 1360 damage.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
10.14.2013 , 11:14 AM | #3
As ever, almost everyone overestimates the amount of incoming damage on a tank. Percentage-based mitigation mechanisms are very alluring, because they retain their value even at very high damage levels, but the fact is that most bosses in TOR hit like wet noodles (relatively speaking). The fixed Reactive Warding relic mitigates far more damage than any of the other relics on nearly every boss (Nefra and Thrasher being obvious counter-examples).
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

Zhaaratustra's Avatar


Zhaaratustra
10.14.2013 , 11:51 AM | #4
Hmm, looks like we have to wait for the fix because the description seems to be very vague in english as well.

If it only absorbs the fixed value why it states "for the duration of 6 secs"? And some attacks are more than capable to hit hard. One example was one of our tries at the council in DP - Force Push 20k followed by Force Speed for around 7k and Thundering Blast for 8k all three attacks was unmitigated. This was within 2 secs coupled with a few melee attacks and I was a dead tank.
This makes absorbing a fixed value of around 1k sounds like a bad joke.
Avistyn
~~Dark Society~~
Teamlead SWToR section

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
10.14.2013 , 12:06 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Zhaaratustra View Post
Hmm, looks like we have to wait for the fix because the description seems to be very vague in english as well.

If it only absorbs the fixed value why it states "for the duration of 6 secs"?
If you don't get hit within those 6 seconds, the absorb proc goes to waste.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zhaaratustra View Post
And some attacks are more than capable to hit hard. One example was one of our tries at the council in DP - Force Push 20k followed by Force Speed for around 7k and Thundering Blast for 8k all three attacks was unmitigated. This was within 2 secs coupled with a few melee attacks and I was a dead tank.
This makes absorbing a fixed value of around 1k sounds like a bad joke.
You need to look at average damage. Relics are all about increasing mean mitigation. I know, the spikes stand out because they seem really scary, but they're very few and far between. We have hard data on this; it's not like we're just guessing. Bosses don't hit that hard overall, and the levels of damage they do put out are handily reduced by the Reactive Warding relic. I know 1.3k every 40 seconds doesn't sound like much, but it's a lot more than any of the other relics can supply.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
10.15.2013 , 03:27 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
If you don't get hit within those 6 seconds, the absorb proc goes to waste.



You need to look at average damage. Relics are all about increasing mean mitigation. I know, the spikes stand out because they seem really scary, but they're very few and far between. We have hard data on this; it's not like we're just guessing. Bosses don't hit that hard overall, and the levels of damage they do put out are handily reduced by the Reactive Warding relic. I know 1.3k every 40 seconds doesn't sound like much, but it's a lot more than any of the other relics can supply.
But is it practical?
From a PvP perspective for RW it looks like no. The chances of it falling during a burst phase where you need it is slim, it will almost allways be wasted on fillers or just random fluff damage. Which means for ranked at least where there are only two enemy dps anyway it would be more practical to use a dps relic for more pressure.

why can't they give us pvp tanks nice toys like dps get.
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
10.15.2013 , 04:08 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
But is it practical?
From a PvP perspective for RW it looks like no. The chances of it falling during a burst phase where you need it is slim, it will almost allways be wasted on fillers or just random fluff damage. Which means for ranked at least where there are only two enemy dps anyway it would be more practical to use a dps relic for more pressure.

why can't they give us pvp tanks nice toys like dps get.
PvP is definitely a more interesting arena w.r.t. the RW relic. I suspect that I'll still be using it, since I have enough HP as a pure tank to smooth out some of the burst windows, and more importantly there isn't much else that would be better from a mitigation perspective.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

Roulex's Avatar


Roulex
10.15.2013 , 06:28 PM | #8
So KBN, I've seen a couple places where you seem to infer that FR and the new warding relic are tank BIS. Is this true, and can I see some numbers behind it pretty please?

Panzerfire's Avatar


Panzerfire
10.15.2013 , 07:33 PM | #9
What about predicted 8 man NiM DF/DP or 16 man HM DF/DP?
And KBN, does the RW relic get the last priority w.r.t damage mitigation?
Or does it get used up before absorb mechanics/resist mechanics/defense/shield rolls?

With patch 2.5 the RW relic will get a buff for assassins/shadows due to higher armor and thus reducing a higher % of incoming damage. But it's still hard to believe that a relic which absorbs roughly the same amount as there is incoming dps after mitigation, thats 1/40th of the damage absorbed and more likely closer to 1/41th or 1/42th due to proc delay and swing rates (using 8 hm council as example since I think that was the most prolonged "challenging" tanking part in this content). Anyway, I'll hold on to my 2nd dread forged relic until I'm sure

There's also the argument that the effect is a wash on "wet noodle bosses" since even an empty relic slot wouldn't significanlt affect the difficult level of a boss. And on high dps bosses or high spike damage the proc relics will give you more than the RW, which is thematically the same as assassin/shadow self healing by providing 34 hps.
So while the RW is better on average it will not "save" you, it won't even have a chance at saving you. Same as the self healing right now on shadows/assassins.

Richgoose's Avatar


Richgoose
10.16.2013 , 12:04 AM | #10
KBN, what is the definitive proof that the relic only absorbs 1300 once in six seconds? It seems way under powered / irrelevant if that is all it can do. I am considering the relic's usefulness from a PvP perspective only. I have read all the posts, but now that the god mode is shut off I want to 100% understand the mechanic. It would be too nice of BW to explain these things and alleviate any doubt as to how they work, it seems.