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2.4 Tank Builds


dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
10.07.2013 , 02:42 PM | #1
update 2/18/14: updated df/dp average amr profiles to reflect findings that around 75% of melee/ranged kinetic/energy damage comes in at 90% accuracy, as opposed to the 50% assumed. this raises the value of defense. I have also worked with kbn on a new approach to calculating absorb contributions from kintetic bulward for sins/shadows. the new calc shows a lower contribution than previously simulated (previous simulations also had an error for probability of shielding an attack). the error is around 1.5% absorb, which makes absorb less valueable, but now increases the value of shield and decreases the value of defense (thus the numbers are almost exactly the same). more info will be posted about bulwark calcs once its all sorted out.
Update 2/6/13: fixed vanguard arkanian and DF warding relic swapped values in df/dp average relic cals.
Update 12/4/13: Added post for pvp data: http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...5&postcount=75
Updated 11/19/13: data for DF/DP average taking damage debuffs as a boss damage modifier, rather than kinetic/internal resistance modifier http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...7&postcount=74
Update 11/11/13: elidion was mistaking. changed AMR back to proper DF/DP average build.
Update 11/8/13: Updated AMR profiles (which are for DF/DP average) to reflect resistance contributing to melee/ranged defense (according to elidion http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...21&postcount=5). this post shows before and after for 2682 budget for DF/DP average http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...5&postcount=71
Update 10/21/13: Added AMR links... balanced between DF and DP numbers.
Update 10/18/13: added DF and DP stat weights using damage numbers in this post:http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...8&postcount=59
Update 10/8/13: Used 180 and 396 as minimum defense values for sins and PTs respectivly. this changed the optimal points, relic info, spike and squish for TFB.
Note: I have included post 2.5 shadow data.

The tank builds here are for the damage weights reported in following post, which are for SnV HM (KBN) and TFB NiM (Thok-Zeus)

The BiS numbers are based on using the best possible gear, but the stat weights reported for various mitigation budgets are based on a minimum shield of 940, which is the shield rating you will have in full 78 gear. the optimal shield value for shadows and guardians is below this number (for SnV), but reducing shield rating is only possible by reducing your total mitigation.

HOW TO USE THE TABLES: Depending on your gear level, you will have a different mitigation pool (in the tables this is "total"). To find the values of your mitigation stats, such as defense, shield and absorb, for which the damage you take is minimized, add up your mitigation ratings (found by hovering over your character sheet), including stims, and use that as your total (assuming you are not stacking accuracy). In the total column, find your total, and use the mitigation ratings in that row to achieve minimum squishiness (d is defense, s is shield and a is absorb)

I have also provided tables for the relics as they affect each class. I used the mitigation (post armor) while the relic was "on" and applied that mitigation to the uptime (assumeing 23 or 42 seconds between procs), and used the BiS stat distribution as the baseline for the downtime (where 39 was part of def proc baseline, but diffference calculated is based on just the gear without the relics). the weighted value is the expected damage over an extended period of time. You want to use the lowest possible.

DISCLAIMERS:
you can find skill point info in my 2.2 tank thread (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=645948).

I have not taken "Oh Crap!" cooldowns, such as oil slick and the like into account because assuming that you have a 7% defense buff at all times is different then having a 20% buff for 20 seconds every 60 seconds. I have tried to include all buffs that come from skill tree as well as from debuffs on the boss from the tanks rotation, such as slow time and the like. I do not attempt to use mitigation stats with unmittigatable damage in mind.

examples of formulas used to minimize squaishiness are presented in the shadow section. I am using a revised version of Keyboardninjas 2.0 PTS spreadhsheet, where i have modified many things and double checked the equations to actual characters in game to make sure everything lines up.

I may have missed something ... so review my work

assumptions:
light armor (pre buffs etc): 3212
heavy armor: 6065

post armor mitigation (total_squish):
(0.KW*(1-dr)*(0.5*(1-d-0.1)*(1-s*a)+0.5*(1-d)*(1-s*a))+KF*(1-dr)*(1-r)*(1-s*a)+TI*(1-ir)*(1-r))

where d-0.1 from is from 90% accuracy attack, 0.5 from fraction melee/ranged kinetic/energy at 90% accuracy (based on conservative estimate and roughly supported by combat data)
KW is fraction pre mitigation damage from melee/ranged kinetic/energy
KF is fraction pre mitigation damage from force/tech kinetic/energy damage
TI is fraction pre mitigation damage from force/tech internal/elemental damage
dr is damage reduction form armor, to kinetic and energy damage
d is defense fraction
s is shield fraction
a is absorb fraction
ir is internal resistance
r is resiatance

spike: =KW*(0.5*(defense+0.1)*(0-total_squish)^2+0.5*defense*(0-total_squish)^2+shield*((1-absorb)*(1-dr)-total_squish)^2+(1-defense)*(1-shield)*((1-dr)-total_squish)^2)+KF*((1-shield)*(1-r)*((1-dr)-total_squish)^2+r*(0-total_squish)^2+shield*((1-absorb)*(1-dr)-total_squish)^2)+TI*(r*(0-total_squish)^2+(1-r)*((1-ir)-total_squish)^2)

---------------------
shadow tank 2.4

slow time debuffs boss damage by 0.05.

health= endurance*10*1.08, 0.05 from warrior/knight buff, and 0.03 from skill tree. remember you get a
base of 360 endurance before mods etc.

armor= armor_rating*(1+1.15), where 1.15 comes from stance (1.7 in 2.5)

kinetic/energy resist (damage reduction from armor and talents) = (armor/((armor)+240*55+800) + 0.02
+0.02 , where 0.02 comes from skill tree, 0.02 come from 4 set bonus (plus 0.04 in 2.5)

internal resist (internal/elemental damage reduction) = 0.10 + .02 + 0.09 + 0.02 +0.05 , where 0.1 is from willpower buff, 0.09 is from skill tree (tech mastery), 0.02 form 4 set bonus, 0.02 is form skill tree (jedi resistance) (plus 0.04 in 2.5)

force/tech resist = 0.02

defense = 0.1 + 0.05 +0.06 + 0.30*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^((Def_Rating/55)/1.2)) , where 0.1 from base, 0.05 from accuracy debuff of force breach, 0.06 from skill tree

shield = 0.15 + 0.2 + 0.05 + 0.5*(1-(1-(0.01/0.5))^((Shield_Rating/55)/0.78)) , where 0.15 comes form stance, 0.2 comes from kinetic ward (with 4 peice set bonus), 0.05 is base shield from shield offhand.

absorb = 0.04 +0.0552 + 0.2 + 0.50*(1-(1- (0.01/0.5))^((Abs_Rating/55)/0.65)) , where 0.04 comes from skill tree, 0.0552 comes from kinetic bulwark (simulation based on 2.0 BiS), 0.2 comes from base from shield offhand

self heals:
health*0.08 every 12 seconds from 3 stack telekinetic throw
368 every 6 seconds or so from combat technique.
you get 0.072 hps per point of endurance (none in 2.5)

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
10.07.2013 , 02:52 PM | #2
Guardian 2.4

skill tree
dust storm: 5% defense
guard stance: 15% armor rating boost
blade barricade: 5% defense. 5% resistance
blade barrier: (0.05 * 11180 + BonusHealing) * 1.2. bonus healing = 0.14*strength+0.17*power+0.17*force power. remember you get a 5% buff to power and force power and a 11% buff to strength.
shield specializtion: 4% shield
inner peace: 5% internal resistance
guardian slash: 3% kinetic/energy resistance, 3% internal resistance
single saber mastery: 3% defense

sorusu form: 61.5% armor rating, 15% shield, 6% kinetic resistance, 6% internal resistance
offhand: 5% shield, 20% absorb
base 5% defense.

get 10% internal resistance from willpower buff.

get 0.01554 absorb per second for each point of strength (with 11% boost) and 0.01785 absorb per second from power.

absorb around 133 per second.

------------------------------

Vanguard 2.4 (powertech abilities).
combust: reduces boss damage by 5%
rebraced armor: 16% armor rating
shield vents: 2% shield
ablative upgrades: 4% absorb
ion screen: 2% kinetic reduciton, 2% internal
deflective plating: 4% defense

heat screen: 3% for 6 seconds after heat blast
heat blast: during heat blast: (25+0)*1.5+(25+1)*1.5+(25+2)*1.5*1+(25+3)1.5
taking time averaged for both gives (3*6+25*1.5+26*1.5+27*1.5+28*1.5)*(1/12) = 14.75% absorb. KBN got 15.33. so im just going to call this number 15%.

power armor: 2% kinetic reduction, 2% internal reduction
integrated cardio package: 3% endurance

stance: 5% kinetic damage reuction, 5% internal damage reduction, 60% increase armor rating, 15% shield chance,

extra 1.5% armor rating from bug for stance.

set bonus: 2% resistance, 2% defense
resist buff: 10% internal resistance

---------------------------------------

SHADOW Tank 2.4 http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...7-6091c2744c97

TFB DATA
post 2.5 slope and intercept:: -2.86631E-05 0.370996245
post 2.5 spike at 2682: 0.04225
pre 2.5 slope and intercept: -3.4083E-05 0.43397
spike at 2682 in 2.4: 0.053634426

total d s a squish post 2.5 pre 2.5
2500 180 1027 1293 0.299358745 0.348790151
2600 180 1080 1340 0.296452002 0.345333771
2700 180 1133 1387 0.293585494 0.341925235
2800 180 1186 1434 0.290760 0.338565326

2682 180 1123 1379 0.29410 0.342535207

relic data (2.4)
weighted relic base diff
def proc 0.3371 0.3252 0.3413 0.0054 5999
abs proc 0.3379 0.3247 0.3425 0.0047 6948
shd use 0.3391 0.3218 0.3425 0.0034 9391
use def 0.3403 0.3292 0.3425 0.0022 14566
warding 32.3810

post 2.5
weighted relic base diff =warding
def proc 0.2896 0.2795 0.2931 0.0045 7134
abs proc 0.2902 0.2791 0.2941 0.0039 8261
shd use 0.2912 0.2767 0.2941 0.0029 11167
use def 0.2922 0.2829 0.2941 0.0019 17321
warding 32.3810

SnV data:
pre 2.5 slope/intercept: -3.59071E-05 0.393653719
post 2.5: -3.01971E-05 0.332054696
pre 2.5 spike at 2682: 0.05196
post 2.5 spike at 2682: 0.0375

total d s a squish pre 2.5 post 2.5
2500 493 940 1067 0.303945556 0.25661
2600 546 940 1114 0.300235105 0.25349
2700 599 940 1161 0.296645715 0.25047
2800 652 940 1208 0.293172978 0.24755

2682 590 940 1152 0.297283074 0.25101

relic data (2.4)

weighted relic base diff =proc dmg
def proc 0.2911 0.2773 0.2959 0.0062 5201
abs proc 0.2924 0.2786 0.2973 0.0049 6638
shd use 0.2937 0.2761 0.2973 0.0035 9163
use def 0.2947 0.2819 0.2973 0.0026 12629
warding 32.38095238

relic data (post 2.5):
weighted relic base diff =warding
def proc 0.2460 0.2344 0.2501 0.0052 6170
abs proc 0.2471 0.2355 0.2513 0.0041 7875
shd use 0.2483 0.2334 0.2513 0.0030 10882
use def 0.2491 0.2383 0.2513 0.0022 14982
warding 32.38095238


DF:

2500 542 940 1018
2600 595 940 1065
2700 648 940 1112
2800 702 940 1158

2682 639 940 1103

DP:

2500 183 1025 1292
2600 187 1076 1337
2700 192 1126 1381
2800 198 1176 1425

2682 191 1117 1373

---------------------------------------------------

guardian 2.4 http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...4-c8bbded2cba5

TFB DATA:

total d s a squish slope int
2500 691 940 869 0.3448 -2.374E-05 0.404152351
2600 744 940 916 0.3424
2700 797 940 963 0.3400
2800 849 940 1011 0.3377

2682 787 940 955 0.3405
spike: 0.0476


relic:

weighted relic base diff =warding
def proc 0.3365 0.3274 0.3397 0.0041 7889
abs proc 0.3374 0.3283 0.3406 0.0032 10068
shd use 0.3383 0.3268 0.3406 0.0023 14078
use def 0.3389 0.3304 0.3406 0.0017 19155
warding 32.38095238


SnV DATA:
slope intercept
-2.78264E-05 0.367329635
total d s a squish
2500 1021 940 539 0.2978
2600 1074 940 586 0.2949
2700 1127 940 633 0.2922
2800 1180 940 680 0.2895

2682 1118 940 624 0.2926
spike: 0.0425

weighted relic base diff =warding
def proc 0.3037 0.2927 0.3075 0.0050 6526
abs proc 0.3047 0.2937 0.3086 0.0039 8329
shd use 0.3062 0.2938 0.3086 0.0025 13070
use def 0.3066 0.2964 0.3086 0.0020 15846
warding 32.38095238

DF:

2500 1068 940 492
2600 1121 940 539
2700 1174 940 586
2800 1227 940 633

2682 1164 940 578

DP:

2500 806 940 754
2600 859 940 801
2700 911 940 849
2800 964 940 896

2682 902 940 840


--------------------------
VANGUARD 2.4 http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...a-bfb3dd9b20a0

TFB DATA:
slope int: -2.54728E-05 0.371780738
total d s a squish
2500 396 1255 849 0.308113817
2600 396 1307 897 0.305536445
2700 396 1360 944 0.302988853
2800 396 1413 991 0.300472078

2682 396 1351 935 0.303445176

spike: 0.043491257

relics:

weighted relic base diff =proc dmg
def proc 0.2995 0.2909 0.3026 0.0039 8308.9640
abs proc 0.3000 0.2901 0.3034 0.0035 9288.7140
shd use 0.3008 0.2879 0.3034 0.0026 12476.4310
use def 0.3018 0.2938 0.3034 0.0016 20174.8967
warding 32.3810



SnV DATA:

slope/intercept: -2.6005E-05 0.331636901

total d s a squish
2500 788 1034 679 0.266636428
2600 783 1089 728 0.26401201
2700 781 1143 776 0.261411002
2800 780 1196 824 0.258835096

2682 781 1133 767 0.261877374
spike: 0.032540225

relics:

weighted relic base diff =warding
def proc 0.2575 0.2474 0.2610 0.0045 7119
abs proc 0.2585 0.2484 0.2620 0.0036 9085
shd use 0.2594 0.2460 0.2620 0.0027 12116
use def 0.2602 0.2508 0.2620 0.0019 17285
warding 32.3810

DF:

2500 834 1023 643
2600 829 1079 693
2700 825 1133 741
2800 824 1187 789

2682 826 1124 733

DP:

2500 396 1255 849
2600 396 1307 897
2700 396 1360 944
2800 396 1413 991

2682 396 1351 935

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
10.07.2013 , 03:54 PM | #3
(The following is dipstik's work. We are putting it in this reply to avoid a forum bug)

BOSS DATA

SnV HM Boss Data
m/r+k/e m/r+i/e
f/t+k/e f/t+i/e

Dash'roode:
3909 0
47 0

Titan VI:
1546 0
1140 0

Thrasher:
5177 0
1209 11

Oasis:
3061 0
1380 0

Olok:
1697 0
937 204

Cartel Warlords:
4360 0
535 131

stryak

m/r+k/e = 1635
f/t+k/e = 613
f/t+i/e = 92
-----------------------------
TFB damage weights

length (s) premit dps
TWH 229.82 4698
DG 307.2 4028
OP 430.87 3697
Keph 326 3172
TFB 593.42 4111

these vales seem low, but i havent run the numbers myself. the average dps of the instance is 3962 when each fight is weighted by its overall contribution of damage for the instance.

m/r: f/t: i/e:
TWH: 0,591375329 0,384192611 0,024432059
DG: 0,403433936 0,366816676 0,229749388
Op9: 0,839883773 0,160116227 0
Kephess: 0,296927638 0,64312938 0,059942982
TFB: 0,5998206 0,302798519 0,09738088

premit damage/s:

m/r f/t i/e
TWH: 2778.281296 1804.936886 114.7818132
DG: 1625.031894 1477.537571 925.4305349
Op9: 3105.050309 591.9496912 0
Kephess: 941.8544677 2040.006393 190.1391389
TFB: 2465.862487 1244.804712 400.3327977


rough overall:
m/r f/t i/e
0.575044534 0.342310329 0.082645137
which gives 62.6% m/r
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

Berjiz's Avatar


Berjiz
10.07.2013 , 04:31 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
I still prefer the variable (range bounded) shield rating approach, rather than picking a single static value, since the shield rating does increase with stat budget. With that said, the fact that I use that approach and you stick with static values gives us a nice way to cross-check our results.

I'll be updating my tanking stat distributions post as soon as we have numbers for HM DP/DF, and I'll probably include separate sections for each. Preliminary results seem to indicate DF is fairly close to SV in terms of M/R vs F/T, while DP is much more F/T heavy (closer to TfB). I really wish Bioware would settle on a single ratio goal, just for the sake of tank sanity everywhere.
Near a single ratio would probably make tank balance a lot easier to since you know what value defence has versus shield/absorb.
Drebi Darkness Assassin
Ve'shix Carnage Marauder

The Red Eclipse

_REDRUM_'s Avatar


_REDRUM_
10.08.2013 , 12:51 AM | #5
Thanks for the number. One small note, I believe the minimum defense rating for shadow (maybe for other classes as well) is 110 from earpiece. I assume that 70 in TFB comes from stim. Would stat budget stay the same for shadow post 2.5?

Hockaday's Avatar


Hockaday
10.08.2013 , 03:02 AM | #6
You seem to be missing the warding relic. Which is just bonkers. I think it's bis as it currently stands.
The Empire is not evil, and the Republic is not good...it is all a matter of opinion.
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Kadjunga's Avatar


Kadjunga
10.08.2013 , 06:27 AM | #7
why the numbers for shadows in 2.5 when 2.4 just hit and will just confuse more people that are just starting out?

Any chance you could just post the 2.4 shadow stats (and relics) instead of the "proposed" changes to 2.5 that will take at least 2-3 months to arrive (and might be changed even a bit in the process).

When 2.5 hits, it's easy enough to edit the post with the new and updated numbers for that time.

Razzberry's Avatar


Razzberry
10.08.2013 , 07:20 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Hockaday View Post
You seem to be missing the warding relic. Which is just bonkers. I think it's bis as it currently stands.
It's there and listed as BiS, although I think dipstik should probably explain it a bit better.

The last number at the end of each relic is the amount of pre-mitigation damage taken per second you would need to receive for that relic to be better than the warding relic. Since most of them have numbers above 7000, it's nearly always BiS or second best.
Rul - Sith Juggernaut - The Shadowlands
The Drunk Tanks

Hockaday's Avatar


Hockaday
10.08.2013 , 07:40 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Razzberry View Post
It's there and listed as BiS, although I think dipstik should probably explain it a bit better.

The last number at the end of each relic is the amount of pre-mitigation damage taken per second you would need to receive for that relic to be better than the warding relic. Since most of them have numbers above 7000, it's nearly always BiS or second best.
I'll have to disagree, since it's not mentioned in his post. Unless by "damage proc" he means the warding. Which is wildly inaccurate name for it.

If this truely is the case, glad to know this oversight was not made. I understand how his tables work, but the labeling is not correct. As it is currently, damage proc is a relic a tank shouldn't use. And if we want to go with that it procs from damage...well...so do all of them.
The Empire is not evil, and the Republic is not good...it is all a matter of opinion.
Nerf Hungering! It's too OP.=Bartle Test Results:= CE VIP
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dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
10.08.2013 , 11:52 AM | #10
Proposed changes:

Post 2.4 relic data for shadows (stats asre same, and I listed 2.4 squish and spike)
Call proc dmg relic warding relic (I couldn't call it proc absorb)
Add 110 defense to tfb shadow builds.

Good start