Basically what I mean is, rebuilding the game from the ground up like Final Fantasy 14 did. To fix issues and flaws. Now before anyone comments I DO know that this would be a time consuming process and we would not be able to play for the lengthy time required. This is completely HYPOTHETICAL, so keep flaming on this to a minimum please.

 

The reason I am bringing this up is because SWTOR does have a lot of faults. Not game breaking faults for the most part, but somewhat crippling faults. Like glitches from the graphics to key gameplay.

 

For one. The choice of game engine used was a REALLY bad idea. Beta testing started in 2008 and the game released in December 20 2011. The engine used is the "HeroEngine". The reason why the choice of engine was a bad idea was because the engine's first reported STABLE release was December 5 2012. Which was almost a full year after the game's release in the US and EU. This would explain the countless bugs that were seen at launch and are still seen today. Like the infamous pink shirt glitch. I don't know if it was confusion, giving benefit of the doubt or just lazy shortcuts to save funding, but the choice of engine is one of the most commonly used explanation the developers have used to explain issues. I also know it was modified by programmers but it was still a incomplete engine.

 

Common issues that have been answered with this explanation are.

 

Chat Bubbles which is a thought of as one of the first things to be implemented in most MMOs. The link provided below shows the high demand for it and multiple work arounds suggested with Forum Admins and Developers responding with engine limitations.

 

Usable chairs. Now this is a really infamous issue because it was flat out lied about. The game has usable chairs in personal starships since launch, it can even be linked to travel. Sitting in the chair closest to the starmap brings up the travel menu. So it is indeed programmable with additional features. Yet I'd assume difficult.

 

Low limit of active quest. This is a minor issue, but it was still answered with engine limitations.

 

Cross Server PvP. I am not a big PvPer but I know others have complained about this. Other MMOs have been able to do this, but apparently the game engine forbids it.

 

There are many more issues that the developers have dismissed with it simply being engine limitations, but you'd think with how often they default back on this excuse, they'd realize it was a bad choice.

 

There were also many features not included in launch that in today's time have been seen as standard for every MMO and when they were added, they were bugged to all hell. Notable features such as.

 

Again, chat bubbles.

 

Group finder.

 

Non-manual gear set switching.

 

These have been thought of as norms with MMOs. MMOs like RIFT, Guild Wars 2 and Tera had these at launch. With World of Warcraft adding them overtime.

 

A big issue that I am not sure is a engine limitation or a personal design choice is phasing, which most other MMOs handle 10x better. I have personally looked into this and see no reason for the area lock outs in this game. The areas you are locked out of are still 100% rendered and there have been glitches where people were able to get inside a locked out area and move around inside flawlessly. The only reason I would see these as locked out is for the sake of quest NPCs and environment damage. Yet games such as World of Warcraft which is a much older game and Guild Wars 2 is able to handle phasing with minimal issues in areas that are far larger than the ones locked out in this game.

 

The areas are locked out for story purposes. Yet the game Guild Wars 2 does the exact same thing. Personal areas that allow isolation for story quest, though in that game they create temporary instances separated from other players not in your group. Again this could be up to engine limitations, but I fail to see how that's a reasonable excuse when they knowingly chose the engine.

 

In World of Warcraft almost entire regions are phased due to normal quest. Such changes include entirely different landscaping and NPC placement, removal, ect.

 

I could go on and on about simple faults and poor design choices, and even compare this game to Star Wars Galaxies which was a much older game.

 

Now I know a lot of you are probably preparing to tell me to shut up with comparing SWTOR to other MMOs or to go play those if I like them so much, but here's the thing, if you don't compare your product to other items that are similar, you are unable to make improvements to make sure your product is up to date let alone better. So comparing is truly the best way to figure out improvements.

 

As for why I don't go and play those other games. Some reasons have to do with personal opinions and experiences that I rather not explain, but I will inform you SWTOR is my MMO of choice when looking at the ones available, and I already have friends who play SWTOR.

 

In conclusion. If it could be done and not have us screwed over, would you be up for a game redux?

 

As for myself, I would be curious to see what would be done with a better game engine which even the developers seem to complain about as much if not more than players. Though I am hesitant because I suspect that a lot of our progress would be deleted and I would not be cool with that due to the amount of money I have spent on random pack rolls on the cartel market and the game itself.

 

Well, thoughts and opinions? I'd like to hear them.

 

I shall also be waiting for the many people who will be calling me whiner, using "Q.Q" to inhumane levels and I'm pretty sure there will be name calling and many censored words in comments, but responses like those tend to come hand in hand with post like these.

 

Related Links

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic#Development

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeroEngine

 

(Chat Bubble Discussion) http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=41864

 

(Engine Limitation Dicussion) http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=538107

 

Edit 1

"Why does this game receive so much hate?"

A VERY good and not flame filled discussion involving faults, design mistakes and player/developer interactions along with clear explanations from players. It touches on subjects that would make this post to big if I added it or that are not directly related to the game engine.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=681352

 

Edit 2

A rather anger inducing comment made by the devs that I was lead to on the thread above. Do not read if you are easily angered.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-07-25-bioware-sw-tor-to-last-for-decades

 

Edit 3

If you see a bunch of post from me, I am just responding to comments that I feel that I can. I'd like to be part of this discussion.

 

Edit 4

I would like to make clear that I am not complaining over the lack of chat bubbles, chairs ect. I can live without both because they are not required to play. I am stating that the developers have said the reason we do not have these features is because the engine's limitations make it impossible or hard to do. The engine was not fully stabilized when they chose it. This is fact.

 

Honestly the thing that is a complaint is the phasing due to the area locked off being fully rendered.

Edited September 23, 2013 by TriggerBlade

The idea of rework is good but since i am part of floating population and will move on to the next game in a few months my opinion doesn't matter.

The idea of rework is good but since i am part of floating population and will move on to the next game in a few months my opinion doesn't matter.

 

Everyone's opinion matters if they are clearly laid out and respectful as yours is.

I accidentally pressed quote on the OP instead of editing it. Sorry. Edited September 23, 2013 by TriggerBlade

The engine does seem to be the Achilles heel of this game.

 

To say it would not be easy to upgrade or rebuild a custom engine would be an understatement.

 

At this point I think it is less likely, but that doesn't make it any less prudent IMO.

 

I am of the opinion that if they wish for this game to have any real upward movement potential instead of a flat utilization (growth) in general I think engine work is important.

 

And I do think they are working on improving the engine and graphics in bites. We have seen some evidence of this.

 

I think there is merit in considering a road map to an eventual overhaul over a long period.

I think it would be great, however I just don't see EA investing all that money into the game. It would essentially be re-building the game from the ground up.

comments removed. Edited September 22, 2013 by ObiJuanShenobi

So... you want them to remake the game so they can add chat bubbles, chairs and a higher limit of active quests?

Seriously?

 

And what happens when they relaunch it and...oh I don't know...people can't log in or create new characters in the game they bought?

 

What happens when other bugs come up in the new, shiny engine they'll use?

Should they just close that down again and remake it?

 

People keep talking about what FF did.

Frankly, I do not understand how anyone can cite one of the biggest failures in MMO history, one that (and I quote) "has greatly damaged the Final Fantasy brand" as an example of what needs to be done because this game doesn't have chat bubbles and chairs.

I'd prefer to see the game consistently improved upon as is happening today. I'd imagine if they wanted to rebuild it that they'd close this version down and I don't want that to happen. FFXIV was a rare case though. The game was such an utter failure that it might have redefined the word unfortunately. Now it isn't out of the clear, but hopefully the new version of it will prosper.

 

My theory is that as we near Episode 7 that lots more money will be poured into the game so that the game will be in peak condition for the guaranteed flood of new players both from old fans reignited by the new movies and from the new generations discovering it. TOR and Battlefront 3 are guaranteed to be the flagship Star Wars games by the time Episode 7 releases.

That "SWTOR will last for decades" quote was from an interview granted prior to launch. It actually highlights one of the biggest problems with the game as is; it just never lived up to expectations, reasonable or unreasonable.

 

To be fair, some of the endless b*tching on the General forums is over minor stuff. But it's pretty clear at this point that EA is either unwilling or unable to address some of the major issues that keep cropping up. Here's a short list; to be sure, there is more depending on who you talk to:

 

• Engine optimization
  
• Consistent and serious lag in WZs, Fleet and daily areas, regardless of your rig
  
• Stealth discontinuation of Class Story, when some of the stories were obviously meant to be continued
  
• Generic, awkward dialogue options for all classes
  
• Over-reliance on creating items for the Cartel Market rather than playable content
  
• regurgitated content billed as "new" (difficulty modes for current Ops, FPs and the "new" PvP system)
  
• broken Codex entries since launch
  
• ineffective customer service
  

 

I can't help but get the feeling that EA (it's not really Bioware anymore & hasn't been for some time) is purely in lifeboat mode, trying to make as much money back as they can. If the parent company isn't willing to invest what is necessary to improve it, then it's a lost cause. They just pulled the plug on Warhammer after 8 years, and Star Wars license or not, EA will do the same to SWTOR if their balance sheet supports the move.

 

I think of what this game could have been, and it's a tragedy. But it seems silly to hold on to what isn't there. Maybe one day, EA will get its act together, but I won't hold my breath.

* * *

is it possible to change game engine with a big exp?

or even if omptimized the game engine i be happy

EA need to think about all the money they can make from fixing this game.

this could give us

1: 16 vs 16 pvp or even 40 vs 40!

2: ilium old school remake

3: 24 man raids

Rookies...

 

Open your Cartel Market window, go to Unlocks, buy the pack "fix all" for 60k Cartel Coins and be happy

Rookies...

 

Open your Cartel Market window, go to Unlocks, buy the pack "fix all" for 60k Cartel Coins and be happy

 

I wish this were real!

I wish this were real!

But it's real, when you use the "fix all" thing, your SWTOR will close and Guild Wars 2 launcher will openned.

I've thought about this many a night after ragequitting because of issues. Yeah, it would be a major pain, and we'd see stalled development on every front while they remake the engine and add everything back in; but then I thought - what exactly have we seen that is "new" and not just more questing material that doesn't add new mechanics? The answer is simple: not much. We've seen a few improvements here and there that could be called "engine" enhancements, but honestly, the biggest one that was highlighted in a news post was the artwork redo to make things more "lifelike" (something we complained about many times during beta).

 

So honestly, what they need to do is take the latest version of HeroEngine and bring back those coders who made the original changes and make a compatible upgraded engine that can just have the content "imported" and what little "under the hood" changes that have been made will be done already in the upgrade process.

 

There are times I think that maybe they are doing this behind the scenes and not telling people; especially when I think as to why we haven't seen Ilum come back, or any improvements to pvp that we've been promised, or class balance (basically everything in that petition thread)... and then I wake up from my dream.

Not even a remotely feasible option. I'm not flaming you, just telling you its not in the cards nor is it needed.

 

No developer is going to take a profit generating game (as profitable as FIFA) and take it offline spending 100s of thousands of dollars to rebuild it because of the whims of the forums.

 

Bugs and issues exist. Welcome to real life.

Chat bubbles would ruin the game for me cause it would make it look like one of those kindergarten mmo's, this is a ****** Star Wars game, we don't ride magic chickens here. The game is getting better all the time in case you haven't noticed and I don't want this game to be like those other lame (IMO) mmo's! This game built a bridge that allowed many non mmo players to cross and we've found a gaming paradise mainly because it's different and not lame (IMO). Are there bugs? Of course! Are they getting fixed? Yes! Will the game get better? Duh! Is the sky falling? If it is then leave but you know you won't because this is such an awesome game and I'm one of many who enjoy the hell out of it and I believe in Bioware! Relax, this game is just getting started.

Umm, we're 2 years into a 5-10 year MMO lifespan. This would be beyond silly at this point. If this MMO isn't your cup of tea, there will be another one likely the year it ends.

So... you want them to remake the game so they can add chat bubbles, chairs and a higher limit of active quests?

Seriously?

 

And what happens when they relaunch it and...oh I don't know...people can't log in or create new characters in the game they bought?

 

What happens when other bugs come up in the new, shiny engine they'll use?

Should they just close that down again and remake it?

 

People keep talking about what FF did.

Frankly, I do not understand how anyone can cite one of the biggest failures in MMO history, one that (and I quote) "has greatly damaged the Final Fantasy brand" as an example of what needs to be done because this game doesn't have chat bubbles and chairs.

 

1. It was hypothetical. I'm just asking what people's thoughts on redoing it are. You did indeed share your opinion on it, but there is no need to mock me. Civility would be nice.

 

2. No chat bubbles and chairs are not primary reasons. The thing is that they are simplistic compared to new operations, which require making new instances that take up dataspace, time spent on making the physical elements along with adding textures. Along with creating new mobs and bosses with new programming. All of which takes time, though if the engine can not handle 25+ active missions and chairs, how easy do you think it is to make an operation?

 

3. Also I bring up FF14 because they remade it. I am not asking EA to do it. I am asking what people would think if EA did it and if they would be cool with it. Which you obviously don't think highly of it, but you didn't have to be a jerk about it.

 

4. A shinier engine can go a looooong way to improving things.

Umm, we're 2 years into a 5-10 year MMO lifespan. This would be beyond silly at this point. If this MMO isn't your cup of tea, there will be another one likely the year it ends.

 

Oh it is my cup of tea. It is why I am subbed. I was just bringing up a hypothetical idea. I do agree that it would be silly to do this at this point, but the facts are still the same. They started building this game on an unfinished engine and they've been using that as the reason of why we can't have small things like chat bubbles and why there are bugs. This isn't me saying this. The people who currently work with this game making additions and bug fixing are the ones who spam that the engine has a lot of limitations.

Not even a remotely feasible option. I'm not flaming you, just telling you its not in the cards nor is it needed.

 

No developer is going to take a profit generating game (as profitable as FIFA) and take it offline spending 100s of thousands of dollars to rebuild it because of the whims of the forums.

 

Bugs and issues exist. Welcome to real life.

 

I know it's not feasible. It's hypothetical. I also see that you are not flaming me, and I thank you. Though whether it's needed or not is debatable. The links I provided prove that they started development with an unstable engine.

Chat bubbles would ruin the game for me cause it would make it look like one of those kindergarten mmo's, this is a ****** Star Wars game, we don't ride magic chickens here. The game is getting better all the time in case you haven't noticed and I don't want this game to be like those other lame (IMO) mmo's! This game built a bridge that allowed many non mmo players to cross and we've found a gaming paradise mainly because it's different and not lame (IMO). Are there bugs? Of course! Are they getting fixed? Yes! Will the game get better? Duh! Is the sky falling? If it is then leave but you know you won't because this is such an awesome game and I'm one of many who enjoy the hell out of it and I believe in Bioware! Relax, this game is just getting started.

 

Calm the kriff down dude. I guess it's a matter of choice, but as the thread I suggested said, they made work arounds that could have chat bubbles disabled if you disliked them.. I also don't get the term "kindergarten mmo". To my knowledge all AAA MMOs have required you to be 18 years of age in the TOU policy. Even if the ESRB does say it's rated T. The closest thing that can be seen as a real MMO for kids would be like toon town, free realms and fusion fall. Your wording makes it seem like you've never heard of Warhammer or Defiance which are both rather violent and sometimes vulgar MMOs. Also there are other MMOs that are easier to get into for non-MMO players. Such as RIFT. It's simplistic, you don't have to know anything about the plot and it controls like a dream. Also SWTOR is far from different... The only unique thing is the heavy focus on personal stories... Which single player PC and console games did. Also there are multiple bugs that have been in since beta and not even touched. Finally the Bioware team you knew is gone(to my knowledge) dude. They were all replaced and the founders left to make beer and teach college.

I've thought about this many a night after ragequitting because of issues. Yeah, it would be a major pain, and we'd see stalled development on every front while they remake the engine and add everything back in; but then I thought - what exactly have we seen that is "new" and not just more questing material that doesn't add new mechanics? The answer is simple: not much. We've seen a few improvements here and there that could be called "engine" enhancements, but honestly, the biggest one that was highlighted in a news post was the artwork redo to make things more "lifelike" (something we complained about many times during beta).

 

So honestly, what they need to do is take the latest version of HeroEngine and bring back those coders who made the original changes and make a compatible upgraded engine that can just have the content "imported" and what little "under the hood" changes that have been made will be done already in the upgrade process.

 

There are times I think that maybe they are doing this behind the scenes and not telling people; especially when I think as to why we haven't seen Ilum come back, or any improvements to pvp that we've been promised, or class balance (basically everything in that petition thread)... and then I wake up from my dream.

 

This ^

 

If it was an opting I would say this.

Ok, seems we should make this a little clearer. The amount of money it would take to "rebuild" the game would be in the 10's of millions if not more. This was brought up in beta, it was rejected, story is over.

Ok, seems we should make this a little clearer. The amount of money it would take to "rebuild" the game would be in the 10's of millions if not more. This was brought up in beta, it was rejected, story is over.

 

Doesn't mean we can't talk about it. It's not like this is a petition.