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Why are snipers so ridiculously powerful?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Why are snipers so ridiculously powerful?

midianlord's Avatar


midianlord
09.29.2013 , 01:00 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Abbyssion View Post
Someone sounds butt hurt, might want to get that checked out.
To say they are the only well designed turret class in comparison to the commando is silly because a well designed class will have a set pro's and cons that one can abuse to beat them.

The biggest con for a sniper is the fact that they can be LOS'ed well so can the other turret classes so whoopdy doo.

Every flaw a turret class is supposed to have to give melee a chance to combat them snipers have a counter to. Stealth? get more stealth detection the longer your in cover. Interrupts? ....Commando's cry snipers don't know they exist for the most part. roots to stop them from running? roll cleanses that. Dots? marksman get health back overtime in cover and snipers also have a dot tree that is probably the best dot tree in the game.

Their one or two flaws can barely be abused to beat them, that is great class design bro.
Who's butthurt? Not me, I assure you. Been playing Snipingers since almost day 1, I know their strengths and weaknesses quite well.

Now, more or less in order of your QQ-points:

Stealth detection only goes to level 30 maximum, and takes time to build up to there --if you leave cover for whatever reason, then you have to start all over again (it takes about 30 seconds to max out, funnily enough, which is just less than an eternity in PvP, depending on the situation.).

So it's far from "perfect." And this is as it should be. Also UIVMM, it only works in a cone in front/slightly to the sides, not to behind...Which is where stealthers are supposed to strike from, again UIVMM.

You can't use the dive roll to cleanse a root, you have to cleanse the root first, then roll (go on and try it, you'll see its icon grey out) during which time of the roll, you will be root-immune plus a few seconds depending on talenting.

Our roll is on a 20-25s cool-down, our main cleanse ("Evasion") is on a much longer cooldown, and no talent we get shortens that. Our other physical CC-breaker (the name escapes me at present) is also on a long cool-down.

It's Engineering/Sabotage that gets the health-regen, not Marksman/Sharpshooter --Believe me, it doesn't amount to much in any real terms, especially in a fight. If it wasn't there, and I could spend those two talent-points freely elsewhere, then I would hardly notice any difference, and happily do so, respectively.

We may be immune to the "actual" interrupt, but we are not general-interrupt-immune. Stun/mezz works against us just as well as anyone, and the operative stun-locking works all too well against us when we're not using Hunker-Down/Entrench. Longish cool-down, shortish duration, animation for when it's up and when it ends is screamingly obvious for you to watch for. Eng/Sabot gets a cool-down re-setter ability fairly deep into that tree, but that ability itself has, minimum 1 minute cool-down (talented, 1m15s if not talented).

(And before you start crying about the big AoE shield: That doesn't move with us, and has a 20-second duration in exchange for a base three-minute cool-down.)

Wanna annihilate a Snipinger? First and foremost, patientce is what's needed. Be a thinker, not a typical MMO player.

Oh, and hump a pillar or other terrain-feature on the way in, if there are any. If we get LoS'ed the not only can we do bugger-all damage, but we may have to leave cover to re-position to try and not be LoS'ed, so we are very vulnerable indeed during this time.

The DoT tree works, but it needs time to start doing its damage, and is very resource-intensive.

You're implying a comparison to PyroMerc/Assault Specialist Commando, yes? The fact that those specs --which are not primarily DoT specs, by the way, they are supposed to be burst-specs with a strong secondary DoT/snare component-- were completely *********** destroyed by nerfs from incompetent, completely clueless devs is not the Dirtythality tree's fault. Neither is nerfing it down to the same level of uselesness a solution. A "solution" to a non-problem, I might add. (Haven't played Madness-Sorc, so can't comment there, but I'm told they are actually quite good for PvP.)

Someone --several someones, it sounds like-- is "butthurt" (could you cool 1337-kids please make up another word? That one just sounds so childish and stupid), but I am not one of them.

I just know my chosen class' strengths, weaknesses, and how to exploit the latter to counter the former a Hell of a lot better than it seems most of you do.

Wanna annihilate a Snipinger?

[cynicism]

Leave your typical new-school-gamer instant-gratification entitlement-to-rewards mentality at the door first and foremost. Beating us requires that rare bit of esoteria known as :effort:: But it really doesn't need all that much.

[/cynicism]
Proud "elitist." Even more proud to be an un-reconstructed "gaming-culture snob."
Merc and 'Slinger 4 life

All you'll ever need to know about PvP in this game: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=730402

Spoiler

starwarsfansix's Avatar


starwarsfansix
09.30.2013 , 12:08 AM | #22
I get the feeling you're really trying to convince me snipers and slingers are not that good, but the charts speak for themselves, as does my personal experience. Why should I be able to take out every class in the game with my own tactic and then create another one just for snipers? What makes you so special, besides the fact that the devs are in love with agents? Snipers are OP, stop trying to hide what's obvious.

Ugolino's Avatar


Ugolino
09.30.2013 , 04:56 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by starwarsfansix View Post
I just don't get it. How can one class destroy anything that comes at him/her in 1 vs 1?
I've never met a sniper that I felt was on an even playing field with Vigilance 1v1.

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
09.30.2013 , 05:22 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Ugolino View Post
I've never met a sniper that I felt was on an even playing field with Vigilance 1v1.
Although we shouldn't take 1v1 duels for the staple of PvP and the base of class balance, you're quite right that Snipers are average at best when dueling 1v1. Any class that relies on cast or channeled abilities (e.g. Ranged DPS) are automatically at a disadvantage against classes that use instant attacks. (But Snipers are very lucky in the sense that their cast and channeled skills are immune to interrupts.)

1v1 Snipers can be outplayed by Pyro Mercs and Madness Sorcs, if they use LoS effectively, though it takes exceedingly long for their DoTs to finish off the Sniper. Obviously, this war of attrition is not a real scenario in a warzone or arena. Stealthers are also quite dangerous, especially at the beginning of the duel if the Sniper has not had time to build up sufficient stealth detection. But the Sniper also has effective tools to deal with melee attackers. But the truth is, however gimped Snipers are 1v1, Commandos and Sages have it far, far worse.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
09.30.2013 , 06:09 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by starwarsfansix View Post
Why should I be able to take out every class in the game with my own tactic and then create another one just for snipers?
Because the professional PvPers say so.

You have to adjust. Just give in. Resistance is futile. We are the Borg.
<S-key to victory> Because flying with s-foils is more fun.

We are the result of our experiences.

hallucigenocide's Avatar


hallucigenocide
09.30.2013 , 07:02 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by midianlord View Post
Except that we aren't.

We can, in fact, very easily be destroyed 1v1 if our opponent knows what the f they're doing, and knows even a little about the mechanics of our class, and knows which animations to watch for and when they end.

Learn to play, and stop crying "GIEF NUFF NAO!!11!!" just because you don't know how to deal with us.

E:

*********** Christ, you people infuriate the living **** out of me.

"The only class never to receive a nerf?" How about the fact that we're an essentially immobile glass cannon in exchange? And that we're the only ranged glass-cannon in this game that is actually designed correctly in light of Stun-and-Smash Wars(TM)?

Ask any Merc/Mando how *********** marvellous being nerfed constantly in that context with a class that isn't properly designed for it to begin with can be!

Troll/rant-thread, lacks content. Mods, please lock.

glass cannon? really?

they are among the toughest classes out there.. their defense is great.. a glass cannon is something like assault vanguards used to be.. high burst and crap defensive abilites..

midianlord's Avatar


midianlord
09.30.2013 , 11:51 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by starwarsfansix View Post
I get the feeling you're really trying to convince me snipers and slingers are not that good, but the charts speak for themselves, as does my personal experience. Why should I be able to take out every class in the game with my own tactic and then create another one just for snipers? What makes you so special, besides the fact that the devs are in love with agents? Snipers are OP, stop trying to hide what's obvious.
Anecdotal evidence =/= representative sample.

The charts with huge numbers on them do not tell even close to the whole story, as this is team/objective-capture-and-hold, not death-match. IME, the matches where I score the biggest numbers on all my classes are often losses.

Death-matches are coming, but hey, whaddaya know: At least for me, they hold next to no interest whatsoever. But then, I see everything I need to see, right here:

Quote: Originally Posted by starwarsfansix View Post
[...] Why should I be able to take out every class in the game with my own tactic and then create another one just for snipers? [...]
Really?

Really??

In other words: "NERF IT BECAUSE I CAN'T BE ARESED TO LEARN HOW TO COUNTER/KILL IT!!1111!!!"

Cry moar, little bad.
Proud "elitist." Even more proud to be an un-reconstructed "gaming-culture snob."
Merc and 'Slinger 4 life

All you'll ever need to know about PvP in this game: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=730402

Spoiler

midianlord's Avatar


midianlord
09.30.2013 , 11:54 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
Because the professional PvPers say so.

You have to adjust. Just give in. Resistance is futile. We are the Borg.
Just as an aside, what's a "professional PvP'er," exactly? I don't recall getting any cheques from BioWare based on the number of matches I play and/or win every two weeks; Must double-check my mailbox, I guess.
Proud "elitist." Even more proud to be an un-reconstructed "gaming-culture snob."
Merc and 'Slinger 4 life

All you'll ever need to know about PvP in this game: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=730402

Spoiler

midianlord's Avatar


midianlord
09.30.2013 , 11:56 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by hallucigenocide View Post
glass cannon? really?

they are among the toughest classes out there.. their defense is great.. a glass cannon is something like assault vanguards used to be.. high burst and crap defensive abilites..
When those defensive CDs are blown, then we're quite squishy indeed.

Said it before, I'll say it again: Countering a Snipinger requires thoughtfulness, patience, and knowing at least a little about the class.
Proud "elitist." Even more proud to be an un-reconstructed "gaming-culture snob."
Merc and 'Slinger 4 life

All you'll ever need to know about PvP in this game: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=730402

Spoiler

hallucigenocide's Avatar


hallucigenocide
09.30.2013 , 01:41 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by midianlord View Post
When those defensive CDs are blown, then we're quite squishy indeed.

Said it before, I'll say it again: Countering a Snipinger requires thoughtfulness, patience, and knowing at least a little about the class.
same goes for every other class.. and most of them have less defensive skills.. sure i can kill snipers.. but it requires alot more effort than most of the classes around.. and if the sniper is really good at the class there wont be alot that can stand a chance against him.. most snipers think that sitting in cover shooting and popping whatever that shield thing is called is all they got.. but the truth is they've got a ton more stuff in their bag of tricks.. so i suggest you play the class a bit more before you try to portray it as a glass cannon.