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Boarding party final convo misogyny


znihilist's Avatar


znihilist
09.14.2013 , 12:54 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by IamTurian View Post
ummm, no. I never said that. I just pointed out that the context at which they say it is extremely annoying.
I know you didn't say that, but you are not getting my point. OP said this :
Quote: Originally Posted by MollyDresden View Post
Is Bioware trying to make this game as unfriendly an environment for women as possible? Because nothing about that is cool.
Let me give you another example, if the very same NPC had a very dark skin. Would say BW is fostering a hostile environment for dark skinned people ?
Another example, if the very same NPC was a male and light skinned. Would say BW is fostering a hostile environment for white males ? What if the NPC was Asian looking ? what if the NPC had a middle eastern features ?
Violence in this game is indiscriminate, so I repeat my question what does BW have to do with this ?
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IamTurian's Avatar


IamTurian
09.14.2013 , 01:02 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
Wrong how? There aren't any "official" statistics, but in popular culture (namely, movies, action flicks, in particular), for every female character death there's about hundred male character deaths. Usually a lot more brutal, too.

As far as history goes, wars. This vid does a good job explaining how the "disposable male" works.
I was mostly referring to the females in history.

Even in modern times really. Females are seen as the weaker beings, and are therefore seen as easier targets for murders and rape.

But especially in history. Males may not have had it smooth back then, but women back then were in a way deeper boat.

I studied, and actually major in history, and I can safely assure you that I know what I am talking about.

As for your wars comment. What do you think happened when a country lost a war and got invaded by the enemy? The enemy just lay their weapons down and said "Ok guys, good job, let's go on home now."

Nope, I can assure you that the women and children in the occupied country were treated far worse than the men in the actual war. Sex slaves, ect.

Just an example, look up the information on the Nanking massacre. Keep in mind that this was a dark time in history anyhow (WW2) but it's still la valid point imo.

There are countless other accounts that I could list, but I don't think I can stomach talking about them.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
09.14.2013 , 01:14 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by IamTurian View Post
I was mostly referring to the females in history.

Even in modern times really. Females are seen as the weaker beings, and are therefore seen as easier targets for murders and rape.

But especially in history. Males may not have had it smooth back then, but women back then were in a way deeper boat. <..........>
There are countless other accounts that I could list, but I don't think I can stomach talking about them.
Bottomline. Men are disposable in the eyes of society for pretty much the entire human history. Men are expected to die first. Men are expected to be stoic. Men are expected to put the basic needs of women first. To quote Karen, "Seats in a lifeboat".

Not even mentioning popular culture. The death of a male character is seen as something mundane, insignificant, inconsequential. The death of a female character is often a lot more meaningful.

And you know what? I'm fine with that. I'm secure with my role in the human race. What I'm not fine with is when some white knight tries to claim a narrow-minded moral high ground.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

IamTurian's Avatar


IamTurian
09.14.2013 , 01:14 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by znihilist View Post
I know you didn't say that, but you are not getting my point. OP said this :


Let me give you another example, if the very same NPC had a very dark skin. Would say BW is fostering a hostile environment for dark skinned people ?
Another example, if the very same NPC was a male and light skinned. Would say BW is fostering a hostile environment for white males ? What if the NPC was Asian looking ? what if the NPC had a middle eastern features ?
Violence in this game is indiscriminate, so I repeat my question what does BW have to do with this ?
I agree with you on that actually, Bioware doesn't have anything to do with it.

It's just a group of terribly bad players that are to blame.

As I posted earlier, it's the context that makes people mad, not Bioware.

znihilist's Avatar


znihilist
09.14.2013 , 01:16 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by IamTurian View Post
I was mostly referring to the females in history.

Even in modern times really. Females are seen as the weaker beings, and are therefore seen as easier targets for murders and rape.

But especially in history. Males may not have had it smooth back then, but women back then were in a way deeper boat.

I studied, and actually major in history, and I can safely assure you that I know what I am talking about.

As for your wars comment. What do you think happened when a country lost a war and got invaded by the enemy? The enemy just lay their weapons down and said "Ok guys, good job, let's go on home now."

Nope, I can assure you that the women and children in the occupied country were treated far worse than the men in the actual war. Sex slaves, ect.

Just an example, look up the information on the Nanking massacre. Keep in mind that this was a dark time in history anyhow (WW2) but it's still la valid point imo.

There are countless other accounts that I could list, but I don't think I can stomach talking about them.
Congratulation, you are sexist!
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IamTurian's Avatar


IamTurian
09.14.2013 , 01:25 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by znihilist View Post
Congratulation, you are sexist!
lol I love how you lost the argument then call me sexist. That's priceless.

I bet the first time your boss fired you, you were like "No, you're fired!"

Then got escorted out by security while the boss laughed the whole time.

If you do not understand that metaphor, I am the boss, and you are the employee whom I just fired.

Xakthul's Avatar


Xakthul
09.14.2013 , 01:25 PM | #37
Tulak Hord was never sexist. He beat the **** out of everybody equally.

Thank you for that, Khem..... so much.

Statement: I agree, Master. We should liquidate the meatbags equally.

*Facepalm*


Enthusiastic Inquiry: Did a meatbag say fire? I like fire!
Duelist Mixalot, Grand Champ Tellsa, Lord Saml, Apprentice Syynx, Captain Cirris, Skirmisher Janewei, Jedi Knight Jugger'not, Agent Ez'zio of <Wookies and Cream>, Harbinger
"Aim for the trolls! Kill the trolls!"- Gandalf

znihilist's Avatar


znihilist
09.14.2013 , 01:30 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by IamTurian View Post
lol I love how you lost the argument then call me sexist. That's priceless.

I bet the first time your boss fired you, you were like "No, you're fired!"

Then got escorted out by security while the boss laughed the whole time.

If you do not understand that metaphor, I am the boss, and you are the employee whom I just fired.
You are advocating soft handling women because some parts of society think they are weak.
Ring a bell ? (Sexism is a two way street )
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wishingwell's Avatar


wishingwell
09.14.2013 , 02:16 PM | #39
Honestly, I've heard something horrible said about an NPC in every 50 HM FP. Yes, even Directive 7 -- the cyborg guy you run into was referred to as, well, a deluxe model toy. Now, Bioware had absolutely nothing even pointing in that direction, but suddenly the entire FP had a side-story about how Mentor is just angry that his cyborg "specialty interests business" never took off.

Ashara in Esseles has had more than her fair share of rude comments. Heck, so have the engineers, and even the dead captain at the very beginning of it. And anyone, in any flashpoint, who has ever been stabbed or shot. Revan and Satele are the "hot ones" and I honestly wish I could forget some of the things people have said about them. And every FP has at least one NPC where someone has said they either enjoy killing the guy or wish they could kill the guy. ("Guy" being a neutral term here, of course.) Or maim, or torture, or bend over a barrel, or whatever other horrible thing.

It's the players.

Now, in OP's exact situation, I agree that her teammates went too far. Re-starting the convo and then kicking her out is, in my opinion, worthy of writing out a report for player misconduct. But that is a problem with the players themselves, not the game being played. Most people, in my experience, will stop making comments if/when they are asked to stop. Most people are pretty decent people trying to relieve some boredom and would never really do even a fraction of the awful things they say -- heck, I'd be willing to bet the thought often wouldn't even occur when facing a real, live, breathing human instead of pixels on the screen. Yes, we get to hit the NPC at the end of that flashpoint. But we never get to lay a finger on Ashara and I guarantee some of the things that have been said about her were just as bad, if not worse. People are going to think and say bad things even if the entire game turns into fluffy bunnies. If we don't like it, we can use the ignore feature; if we feel the other players have gone too far or abused the system, we can report them. The only thing BW needs to do is decide whether or not they agree that the jerks who mistreated another player for their own enjoyment deserve to be punished.

Prototypemind's Avatar


Prototypemind
09.14.2013 , 03:51 PM | #40
All I can say is this: you guys have run in some weird-*** groups. I've yet to have to deal with craziness to that extent in FP runs. Gen chat is another story entirely =p