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It has come, Sniper/Slinger ORBITAL/FLYBY NERFS

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Gunslinger / Sniper
It has come, Sniper/Slinger ORBITAL/FLYBY NERFS

BetaKiller's Avatar


BetaKiller
09.10.2013 , 06:43 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by BaineOs View Post
Ya about that. In time you'll see that get nerfed.

There are snipers out there that are using this as a key part of their rotation in pvp. They normally run around with their friends, usually a healer and just constantly wall bang anyone they see close next to a structure. Sure they do other skills as well and they do have some skill in the way they play a sniper but that's not what I call "every now and then", it's part of their rotation which goes against:
Not even going to go much through this (here is about OS) my only post about this in here. I am not saying Scatter Bombs dont need a nerf, but the way they worded is that they intended the skill to be a fluff that nobody would actually think of using it much (like Lethality CE).
The fun of Scatter bombs in the rotation was the need to move, aim, predict where you would land. Completely different then the current system of: chose target, press skill, skill activates, damage is dealt. With the occasional AoE skill needing aiming.
I am ok with a nerf (in damage, cooldown, activation, EMP recharge) what I am NOT ok with is changing the skill mechanic, behaviour. Making like each enemy can only be hit with one bomb is a possible and stupid decision for a skill that's so much fun to use.
If you create a damaging skill that's not supposed to be rotational why develop it?

One thing I am specially afraid is they changing Scatter Bombs to something towards utility, with no more damage.

But lets keep here about OS and its impact on us :P If you want to discuss this create a new thread and I'll join.

Devilk's Avatar


Devilk
09.10.2013 , 09:40 PM | #22
Orbital strike contributes a huge amount of damage, I really hope they buff something else to compensate, otherwise if they manage to nerf this to the point where using it really is a DPS loss, they will be ruining the MM dps spec...

paowee's Avatar


paowee
09.10.2013 , 11:47 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Devilk View Post
Orbital strike contributes a huge amount of damage, I really hope they buff something else to compensate, otherwise if they manage to nerf this to the point where using it really is a DPS loss, they will be ruining the MM dps spec...
Yep MM is going to be affected really bad if Orbital gets removed from the rotation. My guess that it still should be used single target on cooldown though. With Sniper Volley (and if the MM talents aren't changed), there's no reason to not use SV hasted OS even after BW's nerf.
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Jason_H's Avatar


Jason_H
09.11.2013 , 01:10 AM | #24
If most of the complaints are against Orbital Strike on Lethality, how is Marksman going to be compensated? Why punish MM for a Lethality nerf? Will there be some changes in the MM tree?

paowee's Avatar


paowee
09.11.2013 , 01:59 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Jason_H View Post
If most of the complaints are against Orbital Strike on Lethality, how is Marksman going to be compensated? Why punish MM for a Lethality nerf? Will there be some changes in the MM tree?
Have to wait and see. They only mentioned they don't want OS to be used for Lethality. For MM we don't know yet.
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paowee's Avatar


paowee
09.11.2013 , 03:24 AM | #26
OP updated:

5 MIN SINGLE TARGET PARSES WITHOUT Orbital Strike or XS Freighter Flyby

Bye Bye Fly Bye - youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr86zynfCqM&t=0m39s

- Orbital in the beginning of the fight only (pre-casted)
- WEARING 4-pc PVE bonus (3 ticks of OS)
- prototype nano-infused skill stim
- no armor pen debuff
- no adrenals
- NERF aims to remove OS/XS from single target rotation. BW intended for this ability to be used when multiple targets will be hit. Not for single target DPS.
- NERF should bring our single target DPS closer to other classes. In a raid setting we will still have competitive if not superior AOE DPS (especially with the ~coming Engi buffs. BW mentioned they are planning to buff Full Lethality as well). Snipers still have great utility thanks to their gimmicky diversion, best knockback/root in the game and raid wide 20% damage reduction. Only thing missing now is abiltiy to heal to full


MM 36/3/7
Spoiler

1. 2771 DPS 30% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419436/tim...552/0/Overview
2. 2621 DPS 32% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419436/tim...885/0/Overview
3. 2708 DPS 29% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419436/tim...226/0/Overview
4. 2740 DPS 32% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419436/tim...560/0/Overview
5. 2701 DPS 31% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419458/tim...901/0/Overview
AVG CRIT: 30%
AVG DPS (no OS): 2708 DPS
PARSE 1 (with OS): 2872 DPS 30% Crit
DPS LOSS: 164 DPS if we stop using Orbital all together
DPS LOSS: Even if we use Orbital on cooldown due to the removal of 2-pc PVP bonus

Results were very interesting for the Hybrid Spec

HYBRID
Spoiler

Here we have Hybrid parses, without Orbital

1. 2843 DPS 36% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419478/tim...016/0/Overview <-high crit parse
2. 2831 DPS 38% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419478/tim...355/0/Overview <-high crit parse
3. 2820 DPS 35% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419487/tim...033/0/Overview
4. 2847 DPS 36% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419501/tim...446/0/Overview
AVG CRIT: 35%
AVG DPS: 2835 DPS
DPS GAIN: 10 DPS

Here we have Hybrid parses WITH ORBITAL, but without the 2-pc PVP bonus

1: 2823 DPS 36% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419490/tim...543/0/Overview
2: 2821 DPS 38% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419496/tim...928/0/Overview
3: 2831 DPS 33% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419502/tim...970/0/Overview
AVG CRIT: 35%
AVG DPS: 2825 DPS
Rotation: includes timing TA/AP (IM/CH) wIth Orbital Strike so that I can do Cull -> OS -> SoS -> Cull without having to do the lesser dps rotation: Cull -> OS -> RS -> RS -> Cull.

Spoiler
Last but not the least,

LETHALITY
Spoiler

1. 2875 DPS 35% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419512/tim...281/0/Overview
2. 2887 DPS 35% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419518/tim...867/0/Overview
3. 2988 DPS 34% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419527/tim...276/0/Overview *
4. 2981 DPS 36% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419535/tim...929/0/Overview *
AVG CRIT: 35%
AVG DPS: 2932 DPS

Summary:
MM is still up in the air. We don't know the context of BW's answer to the Scoundrel Q&A. Maybe there are changes in the MM tree but ofcourse they won't talk about that in the Scoundrel forum. My guess is that MM should still be using OS on cooldown (paired with Sniper Volley) despite any OS nerf. The alternative is just too low of a DPS...
MM DPS without Orbital: 2708 DPS
MM DPS with Orbital (4-pc PVE): 2872 DPS

Hybrid without Orbital looks like it does more if not the same DPS as Hybrid with Orbital but without the 2-pc PVP set bonus. Is the 2-pc PVP set bonus really this powerful? More parses from other people would be great!
HYBRID DPS without Orbital: 2835 DPS
HYBRID DPS with Orbital (4-pc PVE): 2825 AVG DPS

Before the xpac came i did notice that Lethality was doing more DPS than Hybrid if you remove Orbital Strike. Did not mind it much since ofcourse everyone was excited about the all new MM/SS and the new Engineering/Saboteur. Also BW was right in our QA. Lethality > Hybrid when played the way they intended it to be (without OS and without EP+Cluster Bombs).
Full Lethality DPS without Orbital: 2932 DPS
Full Lethality DPS with Orbital: too tired to parse anymore lol
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ZipZep's Avatar


ZipZep
09.11.2013 , 04:30 AM | #27
Orbital is a defense mechanism more than anything. Any half decent player will, unless pulled or pushed or stunned into the area leave long before the initial tick. Which is the point, when I want to make melee classes think twice before trying to walk near me...

Concidering arena play, which is the only form of PvP that will matter, Engineers will suffer as a spec if the dmg is nerfed even a little. Engineer currently have three very long CD abilites which potentially can burst down an enemy in Arena's. EP + SoS, Orbital, and Wallbang. And the orbital even requires you to play with a Powertech to pull the target in there.

So I hope, if this goes through, that the engineers somehow, will be able to retain thier dmg from orbital. Cause when wall bangs gets nerfed, as it should we will only have EP + SoS left, and thats every 45 sec. Engineers will have no place in arenas then, cause we simply wont be killing anything.

Agian, when reading the dev's thoughts on the matter, it seems mostly that they are concerned about the ability from a PvE perspective. But yea, guess we will have to see what changes they actually propose before crying to much about it.
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CJNJ's Avatar


CJNJ
09.11.2013 , 06:18 AM | #28
Here's what I think about this. I'm copy pasting from scoundrel answer thread

3) while I'm sad about my OS getting nerfed especially since i am an engi sniper, tbh I feel it has to be toned down. Granted at the same time losing ~415 dps(going off of Nithnuro's 3265.68 dps MM parse) may hurt too much. The one thing this question really makes me want to know is this: WHAT IS THE MEAN DPS FOR ALL THE CLASSES? What's this expected number in the middle of that 5% difference. I'm sure most of us expect it to be ~3k, but if MM loses OS then that would put it at ~2850 right? looks like your parses are leaning to that too When POwertechs did AP on pts that's the number they were hitting too, and they got no execute and mostly avoid armor. Nithnuro's parse http://www.torparse.com/a/365907/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

Going off my guess for what they want all the classes to hit, the 5% and TD energy energy is fine to do that. While I also think its a highly boring and crappy bonus too, hell it gets the job done.

Ashuranrx's Avatar


Ashuranrx
09.11.2013 , 07:54 AM | #29
It will be a nerf to Engineers. But for MM, it may become a buff if cast time is lower to 1.5s (with talent spec) and energy cost is lower to 20. It will have the same cast time and energy cost as Snipe. So unless the total damage done by it is nerf to the point being less than the total damage done by Snipe, which I doubt it will be that much of a nerf, it will still be a superior ability for single target damage than Snipe.

Skotal's Avatar


Skotal
09.11.2013 , 08:49 AM | #30
given what they said i can only think of two options to achieve their goal.

OS is now channeled. Becomes like lighting storm or Suppressive Fire

or

OS has a damage modifier or secondary explosion with splash damage that increases damage based on number of targets hit.

some of the talents would need to be re-evaluated. and i would hate to see the signature Agent move turned worthless and given that you only get the skill at 48 makes it rather lackluster.
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