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Why do people still guard healers in flashpoints?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Why do people still guard healers in flashpoints?

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
09.17.2013 , 02:53 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Terza View Post
I'm playing tank and sniper (cleaned HM content with both) and in fact current FP need's more guard on the dps than on the heal:
- dps is often pulling before tank
- dps doesn't use threat reduction
- dps is attacking different target than tank
- dps likes to give full burst to take agro and have a "big one"

When I play tank I hate it but when I play sniper I do the same...

And during this time heal has no risk to be focussed by the ennemies.
Amen to that ... I love to use valorious call as opener to get insta zen. Usually this will rip the aggro off the tanks. As a tank I hate it too when dps arent carefull (in flashpoints trashmobs).
Bossfights are a whole different story. I dont care if they overaggro me, I use taunting as part of the rotation. You have taunts, why not use them? Even if they rip a taunt will give you their aggro plus an extra bonus threat.
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Ocho-Quatro's Avatar


Ocho-Quatro
09.17.2013 , 11:20 AM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by HBCentaurion View Post
I don't want to start a flame-war here, but if this is true then they are lousy DPS and / or you have a huge gear advantage. Try that with any competent DPS, and they'll rip aggro off you after 6 seconds.
This isn't entirely true. There is a common misconception on how Taunt works with regard to the threat table.

Tanks who open with taunt, should stop tanking. (Let's just say that upfront)

A taunt does exactly TWO things: (in PvE)
1- It guarantees that the taunted mob will not target anyone else for 6 seconds.
2- It puts the person who taunted, at the top of the current threat table @ 110%*** of the person with top threat.

*** No. 2 is VERY important... because threat operates at two different threat levels to pull aggro. (see below, it's not always 110%)

Melee & Ranged

Characters in "melee" range need to pull 110% of the threat of the person at the top of the table to pull aggro. So for the sake of argument, let's assume that the tank currently has 100,000 Threat, and the marauder attacking the same target has generated 105,000 Threat. Even tho, the marauder is technically at the top of the threat table, he will not pull aggro until he hits 110,000 Threat, because he needs 110% threat to pull aggro.

Characters from "range" need to pull 130% of the threat of the person at the top of the table to pull aggro. So for the sake of argument, let's assume that the tank currently has 100,000 Threat, and the sniper attacking the same target has generated 115,000 Threat. Even tho, the sniper is technically at the top of the threat table, (by more than 110% even) he will not pull aggro until he hits 130,000 Threat, because he needs 130% threat to pull aggro.

So what does that mean?

Well, to answer that question you have to define what "Melee" and "Range" are. And it's been determined (by people smarter than me who put in more time looking at this) that:

Melee = 4m or LESS from the center of the target.
Range = MORE than 4m from the center of the target.

So, correlating back to the 2 things that Taunt does, and how important #2 is.... If you are tanking, and you are 3m from the boss and you TAUNT, you will get put at the top of the threat table + 10%.

BUT

If you step backwards to 4.1m and then TAUNT, you will get put at the top of the threat table +30%.

Basically at the end of the day, what that means is that if you back up a few steps before taunting (for threat, not mechanics) you SHOULD stay well ahead of the dps's threat because your taunts are generating 20% more threat then if you taunted from within "melee" range.

After cycling a few 130% taunts in a fight that doesn't have a threat-dump-mechanic or tank swapping? In theory, you SHOULD be so far ahead in the table that it would take incredibly stellar DPS to pull off you.

I'd have to dig around to find the proof for this, but it does work this way in-game.
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Synavix's Avatar


Synavix
09.17.2013 , 05:16 PM | #63
Pretty much spot on. One thing I'd like to emphasize more is that the range used for calculating threat is taken from the center of a mob, while the range used for calculating ability usage is taken from the outer ring of the mobs hitbox. It's entirely possible to be within "melee range" of the boss and still staying in the "ranged" range for threat, especially on a large boss like Thrasher. The range meter shown in game shows the range from the outer hitbox, or ability range. This is not always possible for tanks, particularly on small bosses, but melee DPS should almost always be standing near max range for their abilities so that they're always within the 130% zone.

Seanbabbitt's Avatar


Seanbabbitt
09.18.2013 , 06:25 PM | #64
no it is not been getting all damage teams

Ocho-Quatro's Avatar


Ocho-Quatro
09.19.2013 , 11:01 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Seanbabbitt View Post
no it is not been getting all damage teams
No what's not? You lack a bit of depth in your response, which would enable the reader to have any sort of idea what it is exactly that you are intending to convey.

If you are hinting that when you are doing Flashpoints, that you are "getting all damage teams" then chances are pretty good that you are queueing for the role-neutral Czerka flashpoints? Or are you talking about people queueing as tanks/healers that are actually DPS?

.......
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