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Why do people still guard healers in flashpoints?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Why do people still guard healers in flashpoints?

FlyinSpaghetti's Avatar


FlyinSpaghetti
09.08.2013 , 05:58 PM | #1
I mean I've seen instances where there's been two 72 geared sents/gunslingers and the tank goes ahead and chucks the guard on some lower geared healer.

Is there any reason why this still happens? Bad advice become force of habit perhaps?
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shyninja's Avatar


shyninja
09.08.2013 , 07:20 PM | #2
Honestly, as a tank, it's to stop the inevitable complaining i get from other group members. If i put it on anyone but the healer, someone will always protest. I got tired of explaining time and time again about the purpose of guarding reducing aggro threat...yada yada. I had many a healer refuse to move until i guarded them.

so ill throw it on the healer, and if i do a good enough job at tanking i don't even have to worry about guard. In the end, only time I'll guard a dps is if they' happen to be regularly stealing aggro from me

Falver's Avatar


Falver
09.08.2013 , 07:25 PM | #3
It's just a general misunderstanding of mechanics by an uncountable number of players. Though, in the end it ultimately doesn't matter who gets if the tank can hold aggro. When people try to guard healers in ops though, that's unacceptable.
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ekimmak's Avatar


ekimmak
09.08.2013 , 07:27 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Falver View Post
It's just a general misunderstanding of mechanics by an uncountable number of players. Though, in the end it ultimately doesn't matter who gets if the tank can hold aggro. When people try to guard healers in ops though, that's unacceptable.
With all ops? Or are there certain fights where it's acceptable to guard the healer?
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Falver's Avatar


Falver
09.08.2013 , 07:38 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by ekimmak View Post
With all ops? Or are there certain fights where it's acceptable to guard the healer?
There are instances, when it's acceptable but they're fairly few and between. One such situation is passing a guard on a healer while Kephess' red circle targets them, to reduce the damage they take by 5%.

That's a different reasoning though. Many tanks in FP queues think that guarding a healer will make monsters aggro them less.
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AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
09.08.2013 , 08:09 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Falver View Post
There are instances, when it's acceptable but they're fairly few and between. One such situation is passing a guard on a healer while Kephess' red circle targets them, to reduce the damage they take by 5%.

That's a different reasoning though. Many tanks in FP queues think that guarding a healer will make monsters aggro them less.
The only time anyone ever guards me is during the 2nd phase of TFB. And even then, it's only for the first 30 seconds of that phase.
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HBCentaurion's Avatar


HBCentaurion
09.09.2013 , 01:46 AM | #7
I only guard healers on:
- TfB Dread Guards NiM
- TfB Kephess phase 2 NiM

Rest of the time I guard the DPS. You are kinda forced to guard the DPS if you are running with a competent OPS-group, as they will be putting out 2.8k+ DPS.

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
09.09.2013 , 03:17 AM | #8
Guarding is often misunderstood in this game.

guarding mechanics
You can guard people for different reasons. Either to reduce aggro output or to reduce incoming damage.
A very common misconception is that you take damage if your guarded target takes damage. This however is only true for PvP. Just read the tooltip very closely.

Generaly a guard on dps to reduce aggro has only use in the 1st 10-15 seconds after a pull. After the initial burst your taunts will have stuck aggro on you like glue. Just try it out. Stop attacking when a boss is on 50% HP. I showed my friends during a hammerstation run that my aggro would be enough while doing nothing from 50% HP on.

Since most opsfights require tankswaps and taunting I would advice to guard a person for the damagereduction (may even be your fellow tank).

Flashpoints
I always startoff to guard the healer if I dont know the skills of the 2 dps. I'd rather wait and see who will make my life as a tank difficult during trashpulls. Bossfights I tend to guard the squishiest person since dps won't rip of me.

Opses
Only bosses where you really should guard dps are:
- TfB Kephess (very very twitchy after a pillar knockdown)
- TfB the terror (1st phase = a *****)
- Scum Titan (during burnphase only, I guard the person taking most damage or swapguards to the lowest HP)
- Olok 1st phase

The rest you should guard the squishiest persons or the person who will most likely take more damage.
During TfB DG NiM I'm allways guarded by my fellow tank. You may lose aggrogeneration, this is very easy to overcome and not essential AT ALL. You taunt often often to glue Ciphas and Kelsara to you.

My closing statement:
I wish that people would react less ridiculous about guarding. Placing a guard on someone isnt black/white and is always in a state of flux.
@ OP: We guard healers because there is not always a suitable target to guard yet
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Macewindy - Sab Slinger Srh - Shadow Tank
TRE PvP toon
Ishmaldo - Sage healer

HBCentaurion's Avatar


HBCentaurion
09.09.2013 , 03:49 AM | #9
I agree with most of your post, except this part:

Quote: Originally Posted by fire-breath View Post
I showed my friends during a hammerstation run that my aggro would be enough while doing nothing from 50% HP on.
I don't want to start a flame-war here, but if this is true then they are lousy DPS and / or you have a huge gear advantage. Try that with any competent DPS, and they'll rip aggro off you after 6 seconds.

Quote: Originally Posted by fire-breath View Post
During TfB DG NiM I'm allways guarded by my fellow tank. You may lose aggrogeneration, this is very easy to overcome and not essential AT ALL. You taunt often often to glue Ciphas and Kelsara to you.
I've never heard of that tactics before. Can you explain it further? Which tank guards the other? The one starting on Ciphas guards the Kelsara tank? (I am really curious about this).

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
09.09.2013 , 04:25 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by HBCentaurion View Post
I agree with most of your post, except this part:
I don't want to start a flame-war here, but if this is true then they are lousy DPS and / or you have a huge gear advantage. Try that with any competent DPS, and they'll rip aggro off you after 6 seconds.
Its ok
I dont know about the dps output, my friend was on a gunslinger alt. I was tanking with abradram (fully 72 kitted with setbonus). I always go stand up the boxes to rangetank the fight. I spam my ranged abilities and harpoon. I also taunt off cd. These taunts make sure that I get a headstart.

Quote: Originally Posted by HBCentaurion View Post
I've never heard of that tactics before. Can you explain it further? Which tank guards the other? The one starting on Ciphas guards the Kelsara tank? (I am really curious about this).
Basicly you should guard the tank who starts on Ciphas. He will tank Kelsara for the longest period of time.

We run TfB NiM with 2 vanguard tanks. Heres what we do currently:
- I start off the fight on Ciphas while my friend starts on Kelsara.
- I storm+stockstrike Ciphas and then turn to dps Heirad
- I tank Ciphas for about 10 seconds, Ciphas will jump to mid and I (AoE)taunt over Kelsara
- After about 25 seconds tanking Kelsara the 1st lightningfield occurs
- after the field I taunt Ciphas again

Lightningfield positions are fixed for the tanks and we let the bosses come to us.

What we also do is kiting Kelsara. If you are fast enough you will not receive any melee attacks nor voltalic slashes. PvP'ing and kiting marauders and juggs pays off here :P
Last try i used the hybrid spec (basicly full tactics in tankstance) for 30% AoE damage reduction. This also seems to work well.

I know that healers and dps also are taking a ******** of damage. Our parses however showed that 50% of all damage taken was tankdamage.
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger Srh - Shadow Tank
TRE PvP toon
Ishmaldo - Sage healer