Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

L55 Jugg Tank and L55 HM FP's

HunchaBoes's Avatar


HunchaBoes
09.07.2013 , 08:29 PM | #1
HALP!

I just got L55 on my Juggernaut tank and when I think of L55 HM FP's I think of it as the one-stop for gearing out towards the bare minimum for operations. If I am wrong in assuming this mentality, and this is an archaic way of looking at things, please say so.

All of today, I've been having issue after issue with healers. I've had no problems holding threat so any damage that goes out to the dps and healers are pretty minimal... So when I see myself dropping in health and not getting heals ( and i don't mean spike/unhealable, i mean steadily) it frustrates me. Plus when the healers dps instead of healing, it gets really annoying. Especially seeing a healer from a known raiding guild on my server in a mix of mostly raiding gear with a few 69 modded pieces who wasn't really bothering to heal me, it honestly made me long for wow again.

I have been back maybe two weeks now after an 11 month hiatus, and I have to ask, is this a normal saturday night on swtor when trying to do HM's? Or is this the normal any night on swtor?

I was hoping to avoid jumping into an overly social guild atmosphere yet for my own reasons. Is the only way to get these things done cleanly is through a guild?

I have done my best to look up information on what I should be health wise for HM's, I have spent about 500-600k on a mix of purple/blue 66 mods... Is there a particular health point i should shoot for? I would have thought 28k health would be enough for all of the L55 HM's but I could be offbase on that one.

Am I missing something? Are my expectations of others too high? I don't mean to sound condescending but when you fail 9/10 HM's you attempt in a day because the healer's force, energy and heat barely move... I have to wonder what the heck I need to do?

Daanvila's Avatar


Daanvila
09.08.2013 , 02:05 AM | #2
Well i play a operative healer as a main and it´s rather rare that i queue without a tank that i know and trust so i might not be the best one suited to answer you´re question. But 28k hp on the tank would make me take notice and wake up and to be honest start preparing myself to whine in /g. Im slightly worried that you say that you have spent 500-600k on 66 mods since those are bought for those pesky basic coms the game keeps throwing at you.

The only thing i could suggest is to get a good rotation on you´re cooldowns since alot of the trash in the 55 hms is alot more healing intense the the actual bosses.

Synavix's Avatar


Synavix
09.08.2013 , 03:02 AM | #3
It sounds like a mix of issues to me.

Full 66 gear *is* enough to tank any of the current HMs. The two Czerka FPs may pose a bit of an issue, but only because they require slightly more group healing than any of the other four, so the healer will be paying less attention to you. However, 66 gear is definitely lower than what most people expect now, just because the current tiers of Elite/Ultimate comms gear has been out for so long, a lot of people have it on all their alts from legacy. As a result, a lot of people have gotten lazy when running HM FPs, or else you're just getting matched up with other people who are equally less geared. A run with too many people in only 66/69 gear is not going to be comfortable, and everyone will need to be actively working.

The best suggestions I can make to you is to try your best to augment most/all of your gear (top level blue augments are more than enough) and learn a good rotation of cooldowns to use on the larger trash pulls (they are significantly more difficult to heal than bosses, at least in the first 4 HMs). Don't be afraid to ask for CC, either. I really can't stress enough how much difference it will make if you are popping cooldowns on trash, something most new tanks refuse to do.

On the healer side of things, it's difficult to tell. You are going to notice fewer or less frequent heals than you did in WoW (at least, back when I played Vanilla - early Cata). Healing classes simply aren't designed to spam a single heal over and over like certain classes in WoW could, and they need free GCDs in between heals to use fillers or regen abilities. Also, in the current state of the game many healers will actually recommend DPSing when possible, because a lot of mobs (mostly standard and silver mobs) have a ratio of high damage to low health, and it's easier to kill something fast to prevent the damage than it is to heal it back up.

All that said though, if your healers are letting you die because they are DPSing or just aren't healing enough, they're probably doing it wrong. A lot of pug groups really are bad, especially recently. I've just started doing HMs again on a new 55 healer for practice, and almost every group I get into has DPS issues and hits enrages (a problem I almost never had a few months ago).

SDconqueror's Avatar


SDconqueror
09.08.2013 , 04:21 AM | #4
Hey mate,

I don't really know if that's an everyday thing at lvl55 being a healer myself (I can however confirm this at the lower levels). I didn't think it was that bad as I am a healer myself and I focus on 100% healing unless everyone is close to full 69.

If this is an issue on your server, I highly recommend checking out Guilds.. many social guilds don't require any obligations towards the game. You connect, see who wants to do HM's and voila. Which server are you on?

Hockaday's Avatar


Hockaday
09.08.2013 , 05:07 AM | #5
I started level 55hms on my PT and Jug with 26-28k. You'll do just fine, just make sure your stats are correct. Head over to the tanking section and look at keyboardninja's and dipstik's tanking stat threads.

Tanking on a jug is beyond easy mode, you'll be ok. If healers are DPS'ing and you're dying...it's the healer's fault.
The Empire is not evil, and the Republic is not good...it is all a matter of opinion.
Nerf Hungering! It's too OP.=Bartle Test Results:= CE VIP
{Reward-Driven 85%} {Exploratory -60%} {Physical 32%} {Thoughtful -26%} {Social -60%} {Competitive 100%}

HunchaBoes's Avatar


HunchaBoes
09.08.2013 , 11:25 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Daanvila View Post
Well i play a operative healer as a main and it´s rather rare that i queue without a tank that i know and trust so i might not be the best one suited to answer you´re question. But 28k hp on the tank would make me take notice and wake up and to be honest start preparing myself to whine in /g. Im slightly worried that you say that you have spent 500-600k on 66 mods since those are bought for those pesky basic coms the game keeps throwing at you.

The only thing i could suggest is to get a good rotation on you´re cooldowns since alot of the trash in the 55 hms is alot more healing intense the the actual bosses.
Most suggest using your basic comms on things such as the relics first, then isotopes and not even bothering with 53 artifact gear.. At least that is what is what everyone seems to be telling me.

HunchaBoes's Avatar


HunchaBoes
09.08.2013 , 11:28 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by SDconqueror View Post
Hey mate,

I don't really know if that's an everyday thing at lvl55 being a healer myself (I can however confirm this at the lower levels). I didn't think it was that bad as I am a healer myself and I focus on 100% healing unless everyone is close to full 69.

If this is an issue on your server, I highly recommend checking out Guilds.. many social guilds don't require any obligations towards the game. You connect, see who wants to do HM's and voila. Which server are you on?
The Shadowlands. It's a not a vastly underpopulated server by any means. I just think it's a little ridiculous the expectations people have for HM FP's. I am sure this whole thing is probably healers getting too comfortable with their ops-geared guild mates and their overgeared tanks doing HM FP's regularly.

Galsarus's Avatar


Galsarus
09.08.2013 , 06:52 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by HunchaBoes View Post
HALP!

I just got L55 on my Juggernaut tank and when I think of L55 HM FP's I think of it as the one-stop for gearing out towards the bare minimum for operations. If I am wrong in assuming this mentality, and this is an archaic way of looking at things, please say so.

All of today, I've been having issue after issue with healers. I've had no problems holding threat so any damage that goes out to the dps and healers are pretty minimal... So when I see myself dropping in health and not getting heals ( and i don't mean spike/unhealable, i mean steadily) it frustrates me. Plus when the healers dps instead of healing, it gets really annoying. Especially seeing a healer from a known raiding guild on my server in a mix of mostly raiding gear with a few 69 modded pieces who wasn't really bothering to heal me, it honestly made me long for wow again.

I have been back maybe two weeks now after an 11 month hiatus, and I have to ask, is this a normal saturday night on swtor when trying to do HM's? Or is this the normal any night on swtor?

I was hoping to avoid jumping into an overly social guild atmosphere yet for my own reasons. Is the only way to get these things done cleanly is through a guild?

I have done my best to look up information on what I should be health wise for HM's, I have spent about 500-600k on a mix of purple/blue 66 mods... Is there a particular health point i should shoot for? I would have thought 28k health would be enough for all of the L55 HM's but I could be offbase on that one.

Am I missing something? Are my expectations of others too high? I don't mean to sound condescending but when you fail 9/10 HM's you attempt in a day because the healer's force, energy and heat barely move... I have to wonder what the heck I need to do?
Hi HunchaBoes,

First of all, I apologise for the wall of text. 55 HMFP group finders are a bit of a hit and miss. Many HMFPs I've done with healers who are in mix of purple 58s and 61s and have done an absolutely amazing job of healing, while in others I've grouped up with healers in full 72s who couldn't even heal through trash mobs (and I'm not talking Mando dogs, I'm talking regular trash in Cademimu), because they're busy as a DPS role for the sake of an ultra fast run.

In my opinion (this is my opinion and I am more than willing to stand corrected). The issues arise from 3 factors -

1. A lot of players roll GF HMFP to shore up Elite Comms (dailies)/Ultimate Comms (Weeklies) for alts to get them raid ready as soon as possible. Legacy gear has made it possible to farm comms and send mods to alts. This creates an issue where players in 72s/75s speed run through HMFPs while ignoring the rest of the group, be it healer, be it DPS, be it tank. This taxes the rest the group and the frustration leads to mistakes and confusion of what exact roll someone must play to be as efficient as possible.
2. The gear drop mechanism in HMFPs are not optimal. 69 pieces only drop from the bonus boss and the last boss while the rest of the bosses drop comms and blue 66s. People who are already past the 69 gearing stage completely ignore bonus boss for the sake of speed runs deny the rest of the group the guaranteed drop (it's guaranteed a 69 piece will drop, the class isn't). which means if there is one in the group who is doing gearing runs miss out on 1 out of 2 chances at scoring a piece. While this point can be addressed right at the beginning by alerting the group that doing the bonus is appreciated, it is also, a lot of times completely ignored.
3. Many players hit the GF for 55 HMPs while still in questing greens (i've lost count on how many i've come across in 45 greens or 49 blues queue for 55 HMFP) and unaware of the gear requirement as they have mostly solo leveled and not run through the HMFPs in SM mode. If the healer is in such gearing stage, 9 times out of 10 there are multiple wipes leading to even more frustration.

When you hit the GF, set your expectation that you will find people who fall into one of 3 categories - over geared and want speed runs, undergeared and learning, under geared and no intention of learning. I'm currently gearing a jugg tank and I make sure before I start the HMFP i notify everyone i am in need of gear and ask for a consensus on whether they can help me or prefer I drop and they find another tank who would also prefer speed runs. If the answer is a yes to helping me get gear, I offer my sincere thanks and proceed. I also remind people that are better geared than me that their gear does not give them right to pull ahead of me. I match the pace the group consensus set in the beginning, call CCs to make the healers life easier (it is also actually faster as you burn mobs quickly) and ensure I'm the one mostly getting wailed on. most of the time, people will go along (who doesn't want free gear). Some time I get demands of speed runs and other times I get one in the group who's over geared and decide use of CCs are overrated and pull ahead. When I get Speed run demands or constant nag about not to bother with CCs I politely remind that person the group agreed on a pace and I intend to stick to that pace (e.g. athiss - I will not jump the line of droids before the first boss without any CC if I see there are at least 1 or 2 capable of CCing). The ones that pull ahead, I will give one warning and then if they still do it, I'll leave that person to his/her own devices, survive or fall. (healers catch on quick and this move is something which is generally supported here in the forums) So far, I have been lucky on the imp side that not a lot of people have made demands that I put the pedal to the metal. But I still expect to come across people like that. I could tell you that being the tank you set the pace, But that is rather condescending in my view.

This flood of text may not have the answers, but I hope it'll help you to find answers. Best of luck and keep chugging along.

kirorx's Avatar


kirorx
09.09.2013 , 11:53 AM | #9
As a guy that PUGS almost everything i have done
(some work related, unreliable on game times have kept me out of the raid guild scene)

And I play pretty much all tanks....I have to say this....You have to just learn to deal with stuff.

You will as a PUG guy have to be very very adaptable.

When these new 55 hardmodes came out it was all people in 58's and 61's playing these things.

One thing i have noticed is that there are alot of well geared players that are IMO, horrible.
They have this one track mind set and have been carried by their guild for so long that they can not think on their own during a flashpoint and they just fall apart and quit or keep getting themselves killed.

Just keep doing what you are doing, you will be a much better for gearing up in the PUG world then you will from being carried along till you over gear the content.

Just watch those cool downs, dont get mad or frusterated, and do alot of research on stat distributiion.

Of course you are going to die alot more in PUG group, but hey in the end you will be a stronger more well learned tank because of it and when you do start doing the hardmode ops and such people appreciate your level of "raid awareness"
Watch the Clowder of Cather in this video http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j7uTcYvoEbU