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Keybinds vs clicking

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Keybinds vs clicking

Tankqull's Avatar


Tankqull
09.18.2013 , 08:40 AM | #311
Quote: Originally Posted by strallart View Post
Keybinds let you react quicker and get more abilities off faster. /thread.
how does keybinding let you bypass GCD´s ?

Angellis's Avatar


Angellis
09.18.2013 , 08:59 AM | #312
Quote: Originally Posted by Tankqull View Post
how does keybinding let you bypass GCD´s ?
No one claimed it does. The GCD in itself is irrelevant to keybinding versus clicking. However, you ignored all those abilities which *don't* respect the global cooldown anyway, so it is obviously faster to keypress those than to click them.

Turning with the mouse is undeniably far quicker than keyboard turning, so if you're a keyboard turner you will move slower and far less dynamically than a mouse turner - this is the case with or without a GCD. (And if you turn with the mouse you have to stop moving to click. Either way, you put yourself at a big disadvantage.) Clicking abilities also means you have to look where to click on screen, which means you aren't looking at the game. Keybinders don't have this problem since we can tap any ability without even looking at the keyboard.

All other things being equal (like intelligence, strategy etc) the *technical* skill of playing a computer game is what your fingers do on the keyboard and mouse.

Tankqull's Avatar


Tankqull
09.18.2013 , 09:41 AM | #313
if you have a problem with tunnelvisioning so you have to concentrate on the cursermovement entirely to be able to click a button - you will have problems in pvp anyway regardless of keybinding or not.
using abilitys like those that do not respect GCDs comes down to a proper qb-placement like a proper setup for keybindings as moving your curser a few pixels does not take longer than pushing a button.

so the only true disadvantage left is the combination of movement and skillusement wich can be highly reduced by choosing a proper class.

Angellis's Avatar


Angellis
09.18.2013 , 09:58 AM | #314
Quote: Originally Posted by Tankqull View Post
if you have a problem with tunnelvisioning so you have to concentrate on the cursermovement entirely to be able to click a button - you will have problems in pvp anyway regardless of keybinding or not.
As with your previous comment, you're attacking a strawman. No one said they have a problem with tunnel-visioning, just like no one said keybinding can bypass the GCD. And nothing I've said implies keybinders have any tunnelling problem. In fact, wanting to constantly see what's going on around you and not focusing on whereabouts on the screen you're clicking (!) surely suggests less of a tunnel-visioning style.

Quote:
using abilitys like those that do not respect GCDs comes down to a proper qb-placement like a proper setup for keybindings as moving your curser a few pixels does not take longer than pushing a button.
Yes it does. It might take hundredths of seconds, but it does take longer - and those fractions of seconds are the difference between good players, all other things being equal.

Can you go out of your way to make clicking as efficient as possible? Yes. If you really really want to. Is it worth the effort? Maybe in your opinion, not in mine. Is it objectively slower than keybinding? Yes.

Quote:
so the only true disadvantage left is the combination of movement and skillusement wich can be highly reduced by choosing a proper class.
This is such a ridiculous statement I think you're either trolling or just like to play the contrarian for the sake of it. So: if you're unhappy with the "disadvantage" (your words, so you agree clicking is a disadvantage), roll another class? Great.

And you totally ignored the fact that keyboard turning is far far slower than mouse-turning, because you can't argue with that either.

QED.

Shoo troll, under the bridge you go.

Tankqull's Avatar


Tankqull
09.18.2013 , 10:49 AM | #315
Quote: Originally Posted by Angellis View Post
As with your previous comment, you're attacking a strawman. No one said they have a problem with tunnel-visioning, just like no one said keybinding can bypass the GCD. And nothing I've said implies keybinders have any tunnelling problem. In fact, wanting to constantly see what's going on around you and not focusing on whereabouts on the screen you're clicking (!) surely suggests less of a tunnel-visioning style.
having to concentrate on the cursor movement was what i was referring as tunnelvisoning, im not a clicker by myself and even though im not i do not have to follow the curser loosing any information of my surroundings. or i could aswell say you have to move your sight away from the monitor to be able to push your keys wich would by far take more time

Quote:
Yes it does. It might take hundredths of seconds, but it does take longer - and those fractions of seconds are the difference between good players, all other things being equal.

Can you go out of your way to make clicking as efficient as possible? Yes. If you really really want to. Is it worth the effort? Maybe in your opinion, not in mine. Is it objectively slower than keybinding? Yes.
well it is a slight advanatage, even though one of the best mmo players i know is physically handicaped and forced to be a clicker.


Quote:
This is such a ridiculous statement I think you're either trolling or just like to play the contrarian for the sake of it. So: if you're unhappy with the "disadvantage" (your words, so you agree clicking is a disadvantage), roll another class? Great.

And you totally ignored the fact that keyboard turning is far far slower than mouse-turning, because you can't argue with that either.
.
so choosing a class that supports your playstyle and likings is a risidulous(your words) action? doubt so. and mouse-turning beeing faster than keyboard-turning is a fact, but nothing that is relevant for this discussion as a clicker can mouse-turn aswell. the question is is beeing able to turn and key-press more efficient than keybord turning+clicking or mouse-turning+klciking afterwards, and that is highly class depending as a shade or sin you will be severly lacking as a merc/commando you wont see any difference wich is again corresponding to my point of chosing a proper class.

the moin problem i have with this discussion is the biased starting point of camparing someone who madeup his mind to achieve a proper key-bind setup with some who invested no time in optimization.

magi_melcior's Avatar


magi_melcior
09.18.2013 , 03:14 PM | #316
Quote: Originally Posted by strallart View Post
You can get away with clicking in PVE because PVE is so stupid easy and requires zero skill. Just know the fight and you'll win every time.
So I'm guessing you've never done a PvE Operation then. Anyone who has tackled TFB or S&V HM (or NiM) or EC NiM will tell you that you do need skills to complete them, you just need a somewhat different skill set.

PvP is all about quick reaction times, fast thinking and constantly adapting to an unpredictable situation. Also the individual fights in PvP don't last very long, most are over in less than 30 seconds, some raid fights last over 10 times as long.
PvE is more about teamwork (yes I know there is some teamwork required in PvP), coordination and tactics. DPS need to maintain damage output over much longer time periods (to avoid enrages) meaning they have to adjust their rotations to maximize damage without depleting all their resources. Tanks need to focus on both agro management and survivability as they will take a hell of a lot more damage against a raid boss than they will in PvP (show me the smash that hits for 36k in 1 hit). Healers too have a different set of healing priorities than they do in PvP and again resource management is more of an issue, your Sorc can't suddenly run away and Seethe in a corner mid raid.

Saying PvE involves now skill is both utterly wrong and insulting to every player who plays PvE, if your comment was intended as a joke it failed very badly.

And having PuGed both PvE and PvP I can tell you this, there is a greater percentage of muppets playing PvP than are in Operations, at least on our server
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ErikGW's Avatar


ErikGW
09.18.2013 , 03:24 PM | #317
I believe competitive PVP and PVE are much more alike than people want to admit.

In PVE, you roll over a bunch of trash mobs to progress to more challenging enemies.
In PVP, you roll over a bunch of scrubs for many matches before you get challenging opposition.

In PVE operation bosses, you spend a lot of time beating on an enemy that won't die, surviving spikes, spamming heals.
Im PVP ranked matches, you spend a lot of time beating on an enemy that won't die, surviving spikes, spamming heals, and spamming taunts.

In PVE, noobs with crap gear often think they can do stuff they can't.
In PVP, noobs with crap gear often think they can do stuff they can't.

In actual game play, PVE and PVP are basically the same thing.
Jung ma: Nyshka, Nyshkal, Nyshkai, Nyshkar, Nyskali, Nyshkan, Nyshkae of Gold Nugget Gang
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cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
09.18.2013 , 03:31 PM | #318
Quote: Originally Posted by ErikGW View Post
I believe competitive PVP and PVE are much more alike than people want to admit.

In PVE, you roll over a bunch of trash mobs to progress to more challenging enemies.
In PVP, you roll over a bunch of scrubs for many matches before you get challenging opposition.

In PVE operation bosses, you spend a lot of time beating on an enemy that won't die, surviving spikes, spamming heals.
Im PVP ranked matches, you spend a lot of time beating on an enemy that won't die, surviving spikes, spamming heals, and spamming taunts.

In PVE, noobs with crap gear often think they can do stuff they can't.
In PVP, noobs with crap gear often think they can do stuff they can't.

In actual game play, PVE and PVP are basically the same thing.
PvE is scripted.

PvP is 100% variable.
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strallart's Avatar


strallart
09.18.2013 , 04:46 PM | #319
Quote: Originally Posted by magi_melcior View Post
So I'm guessing you've never done a PvE Operation then. Anyone who has tackled TFB or S&V HM (or NiM) or EC NiM will tell you that you do need skills to complete them, you just need a somewhat different skill set.

PvP is all about quick reaction times, fast thinking and constantly adapting to an unpredictable situation. Also the individual fights in PvP don't last very long, most are over in less than 30 seconds, some raid fights last over 10 times as long.
PvE is more about teamwork (yes I know there is some teamwork required in PvP), coordination and tactics. DPS need to maintain damage output over much longer time periods (to avoid enrages) meaning they have to adjust their rotations to maximize damage without depleting all their resources. Tanks need to focus on both agro management and survivability as they will take a hell of a lot more damage against a raid boss than they will in PvP (show me the smash that hits for 36k in 1 hit). Healers too have a different set of healing priorities than they do in PvP and again resource management is more of an issue, your Sorc can't suddenly run away and Seethe in a corner mid raid.

Saying PvE involves now skill is both utterly wrong and insulting to every player who plays PvE, if your comment was intended as a joke it failed very badly.

And having PuGed both PvE and PvP I can tell you this, there is a greater percentage of muppets playing PvP than are in Operations, at least on our server
Ok I'm wrong. You only need listening skills. Happy now?

ErikGW's Avatar


ErikGW
09.18.2013 , 05:03 PM | #320
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
PvE is scripted.

PvP is 100% variable.
Ranked pvp is as scripted as pve
Jung ma: Nyshka, Nyshkal, Nyshkai, Nyshkar, Nyskali, Nyshkan, Nyshkae of Gold Nugget Gang
There are other names i can't exactly remember. True altaholic.