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Why must the ability to heal as a DPS = underwhelming performance as a DPS?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why must the ability to heal as a DPS = underwhelming performance as a DPS?

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
08.28.2013 , 10:12 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Slicksteezin View Post
OP sorry i have to say it, but most of what you are saying is just talking out of your ***. The ability to heal does not hinder the classes DPS potential in any way shape or form. Saying self healing DPS classes can't come within a 5-10% DPS margin output of strictly DPS classes is silly. Merc can do every bit as much DMG as a sniper, certainly more burst - probably a little less sustained. And i've seen operatives that can wreck a marauder in DPS parses. This an unnecessary thread.
i think you should look at the recent sorc answers in that bioware said, since sorcs can heal, they will not do as much damage or have as many defensive cooldowns as dps-only classes like sniper or marauders.

the reason this thread was created was in response to that comment from the devs themselves.
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DarkIntelligence's Avatar


DarkIntelligence
08.28.2013 , 10:18 AM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by Slicksteezin View Post
OP sorry i have to say it, but most of what you are saying is just talking out of your ***. The ability to heal does not hinder the classes DPS potential in any way shape or form. Saying self healing DPS classes can't come within a 5-10% DPS margin output of strictly DPS classes is silly. Merc can do every bit as much DMG as a sniper, certainly more burst - probably a little less sustained. And i've seen operatives that can wreck a marauder in DPS parses. This an unnecessary thread.
Talk about pulling stuff out of someone's ***... First of all I never said that the ability to heal directly diminishes your DPS potential, that's just preposterous, the design failure which arose from the developer's misguided notion that classes with healing abilities should not be able to deal as much DPS as classes without, is the cause. Furthermore I said 5%-10% is perfectly acceptable but 10%-15% (which is what it is at the moment among similarly geared and skilled DPS) is NOT. Lastly while it is true that this problem affects some DPS AC's with heals more so than others (for example mercs are certainly on the higher end of that percentile margin, as you point out), the only thing that shows is further incompetence in the implementation of class balance. As for a merc beating an sniper and an operative beating a marauder... well I will take you at your word for having seen those cases, but with a grain on salt, because all that tells me is that said sniper and marauder either weren't as geared or as skilled as said merc and operative (or most likely a combination of the two) and that simply isn't a fair comparison.
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DarkIntelligence's Avatar


DarkIntelligence
08.28.2013 , 10:19 AM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by oaceen View Post
i think you should look at the recent sorc answers in that bioware said, since sorcs can heal, they will not do as much damage or have as many defensive cooldowns as dps-only classes like sniper or marauders.

the reason this thread was created was in response to that comment from the devs themselves.
You beat me to it, thanks.
The Dark Side of the Force is my only master, the search for power, my only quest.
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Icebergy's Avatar


Icebergy
08.28.2013 , 11:27 AM | #64
Its called balance.
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mmjarec's Avatar


mmjarec
08.28.2013 , 11:34 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Eitetsu View Post
Guy, I was not arguing in favor of any of this. I don't even play a Sorc (yet--she is only lvl 35). I was merely pointing what the argument actually IS. People keep bringing up performance in PvE, which is NOT what people are talking about when it comes to Sorcs. It is STRICTLY a PvP discussion. And I don't PvP much at all, let alone competitively, so I cannot comment specifically on Sorc effectiveness in PvP.

As a matter of fact, I DO NOT support ANY changes to Sorcs at this time, as I believe they are fine. I hate it when (claimed) issues in PvP end up forcing changes that affect PvE, especially when that issue does not also exist in PvE.

Nowhere did I mention any personal observations or experiences, and you assumed I'm a whiny Sorc who wants to be OP. You know what happens when you ASSume things, eh?
Ok so you are admittedly commenting on a class you know nothing about and dont play and im the one making assumptions its also funny yo keep saying you didnt say this things but to the average reader they look like assertions so why are you even here asserting things you never said about a class you dont kniw nothing about.

hadoken's Avatar


hadoken
08.28.2013 , 11:35 AM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Icebergy View Post
Its called balance.
Madness!

GatorAndy's Avatar


GatorAndy
08.28.2013 , 11:36 AM | #67
I can't seem to find where the devs stated that heals should replace dps. I see where they said heals should replace defensive cooldowns. But that is all.

paowee's Avatar


paowee
08.28.2013 , 11:36 AM | #68
A quick answer to that would be...

"its just the way it is"

Class design/philosophy >_<
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mmjarec's Avatar


mmjarec
08.28.2013 , 11:40 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkIntelligence View Post
Talk about pulling stuff out of someone's ***... First of all I never said that the ability to heal directly diminishes your DPS potential, that's just preposterous, the design failure which arose from the developer's misguided notion that classes with healing abilities should not be able to deal as much DPS as classes without, is the cause. Furthermore I said 5%-10% is perfectly acceptable but 10%-15% (which is what it is at the moment among similarly geared and skilled DPS) is NOT. Lastly while it is true that this problem affects some DPS AC's with heals more so than others (for example mercs are certainly on the higher end of that percentile margin, as you point out), the only thing that shows is further incompetence in the implementation of class balance. As for a merc beating an sniper and an operative beating a marauder... well I will take you at your word for having seen those cases, but with a grain on salt, because all that tells me is that said sniper and marauder either weren't as geared or as skilled as said merc and operative (or most likely a combination of the two) and that simply isn't a fair comparison.
Fact is you are forgertting reasons why they gabe you weaker dps and using any reason you can to make yurself looo gimp you say oh but we are less dos than pure dps.
#1 lie. You are always more dps by far than an assassin
#2 your heals make up forcyour less dps if you dont want to heak dont pick a healig class

You cant cherry pick information that suits you and ignore what doesnt. Once you give up heals you can get your dps back. Just because you arent top dos doesnt mean you are crap dps

islander's Avatar


islander
08.28.2013 , 12:07 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Covaltage View Post
In the case of Sages and Sorcs, where both DPS and survivability are lower than other ranged DPS classes? Yes. Both.
Give up all of your ability to heal as a DPS spec, and then maybe...
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