Why must the ability to heal as a DPS = underwhelming performance as a DPS?

Historically, in every rpg (both single- and multi-player), the 'mage' class (in this case Sage/Sorc) has always been the hardest to master, while the 'warrior' (Knight/Warrior) is easiest because you can just wade into combat and rely on your armour to keep you alive while you hit things. I don't think anyone has ever taken a Sage/Sorc because they expect it to be the easiest class

Edit: Indeed, this game actually removes the advantage that mages generally enjoy over other classes, which is their range (as I pointed out in my previous post, any class can easily strike at a Sage/Sorc without having to take the time to run up to them, all the while getting pummelled by spells)

Your current signature very well applies to Sorcs & Sages, too.

In DDO, all group quests REQUIRE a thief because of te traps ! Those can really be dadly there. Any group without a good trapper is a wiped group there.

That's uncommon to most MMOs, though. No-one implements really dangerous traps nowadays into games.

So - early game = mobs, endgame = single target ?
It would apply to PvP as well, because sooner or later anyone is being single-targeted. And it's usuually the Sorcerors/Sages FIRST, because every knows that they are squishy ...

Then why have the numbers of Operatives ans Snipers increased since 2.0 so much ?

In DDO, by the way, Fighters are not often chosen as a pure class - simply because they can not heal to full. Literally. They have to rely ENTIRELY on health potions and on healers - they have NO way to gain health at all !

Fighters are - combat-wise - an easy to play class - but when I was still active there, I could see quite a lot of moaning and ranting about pure Fighters not being able to heal themselves at all ...

Therefore, I never played one there. I always took a class there which was at least rudimentally able to use spell scrolls - healing spell scrolls, especially - or ranged characters.

Fighters can also not disarm traps. In most times, they cannot see them at as well. Because they havet to spend their points mostly elsewhere.

Fighters in DDO - as far as I perceived them - are unlike the fighting classes here in SWTOR (which is only my second MMORPG) : They are completely relying on others, meanwhile they can do top damage. They are SO reliant on others, that they are - in their pure form - not very often played. Back then, - as far as I can remember (correctt me someone if I'm wrong) - most people who played Fighters did with a few levels of other classes mixed in. Evasion of the Thieves, for example. Evasion is THE most wanted skill of all classes, because it makes Thieves evade traps ! Sometimes even completely ! (If the skill is high enough). But - it is exclusive to Thieves ...

Coming from DDO to SWTOR was a kind of "culture shock" fopr me anyway : The character system is SO MUCH REDUCED I just couldn't believe it in the first time. In DDO, EVERY main stat matters ! In SWTOR - only 1, basically. maybe 2.

Compared to DDO, SWTOR is just "easymode".

Given that WoW launched 8 years ago and TOR launched 20 months ago I should hope TOR had a better launch. I agree with you that, generally, Sorcs are fine. DPS Sins and Ops were nerfed drastically and people still play them.

Balancing for arenas has to be crazy hard . . .

Pve is not the measure of a class, class balancing for pve only does not work. but this is the issue.. most players never play pvp so it is not the market target of choice for dev. So while there may be (both perceived and imperceived) issues in pvp you everyone needs to know that .

Money is where the content and fixes will go. Since pvp is tertiary to PVE players, story players and then raiders there will be lag, and lack of progress to pvp.

when pvp becomes a more serious monetary issue well see fixes. but it will likely unbalance pve. so the solution that i see having the least impact is having not a true class buff, or nerf.. but a minor item that can be granted to specific classes that can only be used in WZ, Arenas etc. that can enhance specific abilities already used by the player. .. pvp worlds though will have to be excluded since they are in reality a pve zone in which player combat can occur.

tweaking the classes is not a option as it causes a ripple across the renaming classes.

that being said.. unless your using the 'perfect macro' (and awaiting a nice ban), pvp really in its whole form cannot be balanced because meat bags are imperfect, tcp/client transmission is not perfect, and thousands of gear combos make it neigh impossible to ever attain that golden balance.

I see no reason why classes with utility such as being able to perform dual rules should be able to DPS as well as a pure DPS class that only does one thing. That being said all DPS specs should be viable for even nightmare content. The gaps in DPS classes shouldn't be as large as they are now.

Simply put Snipers / Smugglers / Juggernauts / Guardians / Marauders / Sentinels can continue to DPS while using their cool downs. Their cool downs are about damage reduction primarily, or at least a temporary heal in the case of the Juggernaut / Guardian. Essentially Sages / Sorcs / Mercs / Commandos can't DPS while trying not to die. Other DPS classes can. Plain and simple.

Personally I don't think this is as big a deal in PvP as it is in PvE combat. In PvP a good healer can generally out run a DPS's or at the very least it takes a DPS a good while to kill the healer. While the healer is being tied up by the DPS, their teammates should come help them. If they don't it's a failure on the team's part. A healer in equal gear with a high level of skill can be next to impossible to kill but a DPS can tie one up. This is actually good as far as I'm concerned. It makes attacking a healer a great strategy and forces team work in order for success.

The problem is few people can PvP worth a damn and don't work together well enough to make that a viable gameplay mechanic in warzones. The state of PvP as it stands is that no one gives a damn about anything other than who has the most DPS in warzones. Rarely is anyone given an MvP vote for anything other than good DPS numbers. Objective points, protection etc. is rarely noticed. So people pay less attention to team work than getting high damage numbers.

On the PvE front the current situation is absolutely unacceptable. The enrage timers on the current NiM content do not tolerate huge drops in DPS. So while a Sorc / Merc or whatever is healing to full they aren't DPS'ing. They have no cool downs to speak of to fall back on. So if a Merc or Sorc rips agro all of the sudden they die pretty quickly or they have to choose to stop DPS'ing and heal up. A good Sorc / Sage can put out really solid burst damage and if they ever get agro they practically get one shotted by the boss because they have poor damage mitigation and the inability to hit a cooldown and trust in their healer as Marauders and other classes do.

The way I see it the only solution is for BioWare to stop designing NiM content so poorly. What I mean by that is that DPS checks which are as extreme as say NiM Dread Guard are a poor design. Unlike EC NiM which had tough mechanics to master NiM Dread Guards relies more on that DPS check for difficulty than mechanics. Yes it is challenging mechanically, but not like Kephess in NiM EC was.

Sorcs have maneuverability, lots of cc and range. Throw in heals and bubbles and temporary invulnerability and, really, they are fine for pvp. Dps sorcs cans do a lot of damage (while doing more healing than any non-healer). For those thinking dps heals are nearly useless in pvp I can only disagree vehemently, especially on a class with stuns mezzes, kbs and escape tools like sorcs have: good ones can be VERY hard to kill in small group fights, requiring well over 60k damage to bring down even if they don't use potions.

For raiding, none of their utilty matters at all but that's more of a testament to how generally stupid raiding is than it is a knock on sorcs.

But in this game its by far the easiest to play as it was in wow as it was in everquest

Yep. There's an old stigma that comes from rpgs and the first muds where the fighter is fun for low level play and the caster is weak, but at high levels it is completely the opposite. But in this game sages get all of their main tools long before the warriors do. If you're tired of getting charged by a warrior just remember that you have at least one sprint or aoe knockback for every one of his charges; he should be able to hit you occasionally but you can easily keep him at range for most of a fight vs most specs.

Sorcs have maneuverability?! You make me chuckle.

Name one class that does not have "stuns, mezzes (oh yes this is Guild Wars), and escape tools." Very few classes don't have knockbacks but trust me they have more that enough other things to make up for it, as is evident in DPS parses.

As for heals in PvP I only have one thing to say: go sit by the huttball (or hide in the darkest corner of any WZ, it makes no difference) and heal yourself to full! See how long you last.

Wow just wow... Have you ever played this game? I don't even need to say anything because everyone who has ever PvPed in this game know that what you are saying here is a load of crap. I would pay to see you play as a sorcerer vs a warrior in PvP environment and try to demonstrate your claim. It should make for a hilarious video, unless the warrior is passed out of course, but even then it would still be funny. Mind you I am not saying it can't be done, just that I would like to see you try, keeping in mind that your goal is to eventually kill said warrior not just run away from him...