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Why must the ability to heal as a DPS = underwhelming performance as a DPS?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why must the ability to heal as a DPS = underwhelming performance as a DPS?

Delmyr's Avatar


Delmyr
08.29.2013 , 04:35 PM | #151
Quote: Originally Posted by AGSThomas View Post
Sorc/Sage is fine in PVE. I've personally witnessed a good sorc keep up and beat on some fights a good marauder. PvP is where they need a buff. This goes back tot he whole theory "Do we buff PvP capability for a class and risk a PvE imbalance."
If dps were a constant(it's not, balance issues) then all that would be needed to change and balance would be support and defensive abilities which can't be because dps can't be constant so it is always going to be a tug of war
I see the problem here. Hm, yes. You are suffering from No Challenge Withdrawal. I'm sorry but there is no cure other than getting a full team premade to form a wedge to annihilate those fleeing from the inevitable faceroll.

Acrimonus's Avatar


Acrimonus
08.29.2013 , 04:43 PM | #152
I can't believe that post stating that the dps of hybrids is lesser because they can heal to full actually exists and someone actually not only thought up that... intelligent comment... but green lighted it to be posted on the forums as well.

If you are healing yourself in a raid as a dps class in any MMO, you should be kicked from the raid solely for pandering to the poor design philosophy of whoever is currently in charge of class balance, not to mention you are hurting your raid.

noobzor's Avatar


noobzor
08.29.2013 , 04:44 PM | #153
I tried really hard to care about the plight of the sorcerer DPS, but then I read this thread and completely lost my sympathy. I just don't see anything here that sounds any different from any similar thread from any MMO that I have played.

When it comes down to it, this game is just not built for "serious" PvP or for "serious" raid progression. That's just not the target audience. There are MMO's out there that are built for those things, but this is not it. I see an effort on the part of the developers to try to satisfy some of that, but the players who care about "serious" PvP or "serious" raid progression are in the minority, and the development priorities do not seem to align with what that minority wants.

Perhaps it is a problem of expectations. Perhaps some players would be better off playing a different game. I would love to see this game gain in popularity and I hate to see it lose players, but it's not the game for everyone.

Acrimonus's Avatar


Acrimonus
08.29.2013 , 04:50 PM | #154
Quote: Originally Posted by noobzor View Post
I tried really hard to care about the plight of the sorcerer DPS, but then I read this thread and completely lost my sympathy. I just don't see anything here that sounds any different from any similar thread from any MMO that I have played.

When it comes down to it, this game is just not built for "serious" PvP or for "serious" raid progression. That's just not the target audience. There are MMO's out there that are built for those things, but this is not it. I see an effort on the part of the developers to try to satisfy some of that, but the players who care about "serious" PvP or "serious" raid progression are in the minority, and the development priorities do not seem to align with what that minority wants.

Perhaps it is a problem of expectations. Perhaps some players would be better off playing a different game. I would love to see this game gain in popularity and I hate to see it lose players, but it's not the game for everyone.
If it isn't built to actually have people play the game then what is this game about? Jedi/Sith dress-up? What does the majority of the population DO? Drool on their keyboard spinning in circles in fleet? Farm relentlessly for things they have no need for?

Delmyr's Avatar


Delmyr
08.29.2013 , 04:51 PM | #155
Quote: Originally Posted by Acrimonus View Post
I can't believe that post stating that the dps of hybrids is lesser because they can heal to full actually exists and someone actually not only thought up that... intelligent comment... but green lighted it to be posted on the forums as well.

If you are healing yourself in a raid as a dps class in any MMO, you should be kicked from the raid solely for pandering to the poor design philosophy of whoever is currently in charge of class balance, not to mention you are hurting your raid.
Should I quote it again? Bioware has not posted anything with the 3 answers that even hints at heals affecting dps other than stopping dps to heal. They were comparing survivability and the tools there of.

To be frank the problem lies in that healing has too much cost (cast time, resource cost, or not strong enough) for the small benefit you may or may not see from healing.
I see the problem here. Hm, yes. You are suffering from No Challenge Withdrawal. I'm sorry but there is no cure other than getting a full team premade to form a wedge to annihilate those fleeing from the inevitable faceroll.

Ausgelebt's Avatar


Ausgelebt
08.29.2013 , 04:51 PM | #156
Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
I don't agree with the idea of the hybrid tax, if that's what's going on here. Especially in a PVE environment, we don't want our dps having to heal during a fight when enrage timers are at stake. There is absolutely no benefit to that. Same in PVP. However, I do think people underestimate the ability to *cough* heal to full. Look through WoW arena forums and see how much QQ there is over dps classes that can heal and the explosion when certain ones didn't get a heal nerf they were proposing.

I think that if Bioware buffed Sorc dps and gave them better defensive cooldowns, they would also inevitably nerf their ability to heal while in DPS spec. Would people find that an acceptable trade off?

Kolto Bomb, sup.

TalkingDinosaur's Avatar


TalkingDinosaur
08.29.2013 , 04:57 PM | #157
Quote: Originally Posted by Inflicktion View Post
LOL! Just had to hear that one for myself.

Inquisitors and Consulars will never be returned to their demi-god release status. The sooner you guys get over that the sooner we can all enjoy a balanced game.
Oh god, I just had awful memories of sages and sorcs pre 1.2. Those were dark times...
TALKINGDINOSAUR
Squadron
11-11-11

noobzor's Avatar


noobzor
08.29.2013 , 05:06 PM | #158
Quote: Originally Posted by Acrimonus View Post
If it isn't built to actually have people play the game then what is this game about? Jedi/Sith dress-up? What does the majority of the population DO? Drool on their keyboard spinning in circles in fleet? Farm relentlessly for things they have no need for?
In a nutshell...yes.

Saying "it isn't built to actually have people play" is a very narrow view, though. Serious PvP and serious progression raiding represent a relatively small part of the content in the game...there are a lot of things that qualify as "playing" that do not involve those things. It can be hard for some people to grasp, but a lot of people (perhaps even a majority) do not have any ultimate goal that they are striving for when they play...they don't have any concept of "winning"...they just play. As long as there is something for them to do to pass the time, they are satisfied. I may be wrong, but from my experience, those people represent the majority of players, and those people seem to be the core target audience for this game.

noobzor's Avatar


noobzor
08.29.2013 , 05:11 PM | #159
Quote: Originally Posted by noobzor View Post
In a nutshell...yes.

Saying "it isn't built to actually have people play" is a very narrow view, though. Serious PvP and serious progression raiding represent a relatively small part of the content in the game...there are a lot of things that qualify as "playing" that do not involve those things. It can be hard for some people to grasp, but a lot of people (perhaps even a majority) do not have any ultimate goal that they are striving for when they play...they don't have any concept of "winning"...they just play. As long as there is something for them to do to pass the time, they are satisfied. I may be wrong, but from my experience, those people represent the majority of players, and those people seem to be the core target audience for this game.
Also, I am not saying whether this is right or wrong on the part of the developers, I am just stating what seems like the state of things based on my observations. The dialogue over class balance is good, and it is things the developers need to hear, but it needs to be tempered by reasonable expectations. If the game continually fails to live up to your expectations, it may be worth looking into other options.

mmjarec's Avatar


mmjarec
08.29.2013 , 06:03 PM | #160
Why dont they just change the way certain abilities work in pvp vs pve that would be easiest to balance. But makes too much sense