Why must the ability to heal as a DPS = underwhelming performance as a DPS?

So while sins have a few short duration low application abilities they are somehow fine but if sorcs have them its hell on earth

Example defensive cds 1 plus minute cd. 4 second duration. Sap. Sitistional stealth requred himanoid only. Maul positional and situational.
You must have missed the parse you dont suck you just need to l2p. You arent the worst dps by far. You are thousands above sin and above a few others which puts you middle of the pack.
Dps specs werent ment to have anythin other than offheeals bcuz its a dps spec. My dos spec doesnt give me heals to save myself with uber healing why should yours. Others were right you sorcs are the whinest bunch of low skilled babies ive ever seen.
All sin abilites are situational. So why are you crying again

But some guilds might want to have exclusively those who are within the leader boards.

So, Operatives give up DPS for being able to heal, too ?

Godmode ?

Operatives already have that.

And why are Operatives a) in the top positions of DPS already, b) are so popular all in all ?

Hmmm, ever heard of Valorous Call, or do you not know how to use it? You can start a fight with 30 centering from the combat tree or build it quick enough to start then in a gcd you hit inspiration > valorous call > zen so.... please review your argument.

So, Auto crit and the question of how to heal to full are the real issues. I think we should spend 10 pages purely discussing how dps with heals can heal to full in a normal setting without hurting our team.

Sorc/Sage is fine in PVE. I've personally witnessed a good sorc keep up and beat on some fights a good marauder. PvP is where they need a buff. This goes back tot he whole theory "Do we buff PvP capability for a class and risk a PvE imbalance."

http://www.torparse.com/statistics

Check any fight on torparse and tell me that with equal skills and gear that is the norm. Just cause you saw it happen in your raid group does not mean its the norm.

Yeah my sentiments exactly. I figured this out a couple of posts ago that's why I stopped responding to him. For half of his posts he actually makes some valid points, albeit ones that have either already been made or a so self-evident most people don't need to mention them, and of course as you pointed out in those posts he clearly agrees with us. On the others he is just rambling incoherently about nonsense.

Mmm...

The curse of healing and class balance is a very, very old issue. But let's face it, most games follow teh Gary Gigax group template: Warrior/Tank nearly invulnerable but low damage, Mage great DPS but made out of glass, Cleric heal and mediocre in all else, Thief, oh well we need comic relief...

Because of the tremendous influence of the Gygax architecture, PvP on one-on-one definetly handicaps the healer, and really badly because they are viewed as "support" and because of their group effectiveness multiplier. Issue with class in group balancing act.

Often the excuse that the healer has the worst DPS is because they can heal themselves, sounds good in paper, but ultimately its a poor one. Mostly because they often can't heal enough to counter the damage suffered while trying to cast the heal on themselves and in many games such a cast is interruptable or delayable. The so called excuse, that the healer needs to be judicious as towhen to heal themselves is a false belief that the healer "does" have a choice when they are being beat-up with out stop by a warrior who can mitigate whatever damage the healer can deal through their armor which automtically works 100% of the time. Balancing is tough...

The real proof of the pudding in tis game, take your Sorcerer and match them against any other class an specialty, if the game was balanced, and players evenly equipped and experienced, then there would be a 50/50 chance of either winning. I don't think this is the case for the Sorcerer or quite possibly any class on a one-on-one.

Also being a healer in a group PvP is about suicidal, just about all players know to take the healer down first, its the key to group victory. So here you have a healer getting mugged by a bunch of players, and trying to survive by healing themselves? I doubt if four or more are pounding on them they will be able to get a single heal off. But once again, how you balance for group combat?

In most games, i find that the pragmatic effectiveness of heal is all too often greatly exagerated, and as a result the DPS of a healer is greatly nurfed. But as I said, test my statement, and take your healer on one-on-ones and lets see if you get the 50% win/lose statistics.

Sue

In that case I would like to claim that Assassin tanks make great DPS. I've personally kept up and beat a marauder on an entire Ops run on damage. Same gear level too (yes I was in tank gear, not DPS).

For some reason though I feel that his severe lacking of skill had something to do with it more than the Assassin tank's ability to DPS.