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An Answer: Why Rated 8v8 is going away

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
An Answer: Why Rated 8v8 is going away

Captainejo's Avatar


Captainejo
08.27.2013 , 11:35 AM | #1
From the simple stand point that there are 'around' 400k-500k subs or whatever, plus FTPers. Even if the number was as low as 200K players playing the game it goes like this:

17 Servers, say all of them had 12 teams that played ranked (gross assumption, some are PVE servers, some pvp may have more teams) and that each 8v8 ranked teams requires 8 players. That is about 1632 players in the game playing ranked, lets pretend the teams have backup players and we can bump the number up to 2000 players playing ranked - Across the whole sub base. Lets say theres only 200k players playing SWTOR, that 2000 players is only 1% of the playerbase. And I'm guessing high on players and low on subs. So for less than 1% of the people actually playing they're making the changes. The other few hundred thousand players now get a chance to have exposure to ranked, cause getting on a ranked team is way harder than getting into an OPs group and doing a HM Operation. Doesn't mean anyone is good or bad anywhere, its about ease of entry into the game. If I was the CEO or a Dev I'd make the decsion to include the 99+% of players more regularly than the >1%.

I think removing 8v8 ranked or making 8v8 different than what it is now is silly, since group-finder has Ops which is used probably 95% of the time by an OP group queing through GF for the comms, and WZ's should/could have something similar.

They Made nightmare modes for the >1%; lets hope they keep the >1% in mind when tweaking Warzones down the line post 2.4.
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Heal-To-Full
08.27.2013 , 11:44 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Captainejo View Post
That is about 1632 players in the game playing ranked, lets pretend the teams have backup players and we can bump the number up to 2000 players playing ranked - Across the whole sub base.
Nowhere near I think.
It's more like 2-6 teams per server except Pot5 that play on a consistent basis. Some might not have them at all, because you can't play ranked with just 1 team. IDK how populated are the EU servers and if all of the RP and PvE ones even have such teams.

And they spend very little time in these RWZ, compared to PvE guilds grinding through NiM ops for hours on end.
The reason they want no 8v8 RWZ was already stated, they want all ranked in one place so that it would actually happen without pre-Q'd matches.
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Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
08.27.2013 , 11:48 AM | #3
How many people do you think are running nightmare mode 16 man operations?

Let's get rid of them.
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mfourcustom's Avatar


mfourcustom
08.27.2013 , 11:49 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
How many people do you think are running nightmare mode 16 man operations?

Let's get rid of them.
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SEANeD's Avatar


SEANeD
08.27.2013 , 11:59 AM | #5
This is not an answer. Not one post I've seen has been able to explain why going out of the way to remove 8v8 ranked is better than leaving it as is along side ranked arenas. Not only that, but If it comes down to a difficulty in making a combined rating for arenas, as it stands most people prefer 8v8 by a large margin. I read 3 pages of 8v8 or arena thread and only one person said they preferred arenas to 8v8 ranked, and it was someone who hadn't played arenas yet. A combined or separate rating or making only regs arenas would be way better than what bw plans on doing, but there is no reason both 8v8 ranked and ranked arenas shouldn't be around in patch 2.4.
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cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
08.27.2013 , 12:10 PM | #6
RWZ in general was just a mess. Even if you had 2 teams queue at the same time, you sometimes had to wait 5-10 minutes for the queue to finally pop.

But Arenas would have made RWZ a ghost town.

Competitive PvP in this game is just so messed up. No leaderboards, barely any matchmaking (tho I guess 2.4 is bringing some), you cant organize a match against a specific opponent, no cross faction in-game chat, etc. The list could go on for pages probably.
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foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
08.27.2013 , 12:11 PM | #7
i could care less about the NiM comparisons. how many ppl pvp? how many more do think will pvp with arenas, where you have to be BETTER than in WZs? think about that for a minute.

now think about this: even if you don't care about RWZ, the reg Q forces you to Q both WZs and arenas at the same time. the grp limits are the same. do you understand what this means? a 4m premade will now comprise the entire arena team. you think ppl QQ'd about premades, wait till you get a load of arenas that are force fed down the ONE reg Q.

returning to population....the same number of ppl will pvp who have always pvp'd. you're not growing the population with arenas. you're growing the number of teams while, in the long term, shrinking the population precisely because they flesh out skill more so than 8v8. this is not a bad thing. I'm not a care bear crying at the loss of his carry. I'm stating a logical conclusion: the lesser players who could contribute in 8v8 will be useless in 4v4, get stomped and stop Qing. w/o RWZs, they have no rated option and the rated community shrinks. hey. nothing wrong with 4v4 and 4v4 rated. it's a good thing. as the only rated option, however, it will shrink rather than grow the rated player population. also...it puts much more of an onus on class balance, which this game has struggled with since its inception. and I don't mean that every class can't be viable, but you're usually talking about 1 in 3 specs. and in the case of wars/knights, the SAME spec.
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foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
08.27.2013 , 12:13 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
RWZ in general was just a mess. Even if you had 2 teams queue at the same time, you sometimes had to wait 5-10 minutes for the queue to finally pop.

But Arenas would have made RWZ a ghost town.

Competitive PvP in this game is just so messed up. No leaderboards, barely any matchmaking (tho I guess 2.4 is bringing some), you cant organize a match against a specific opponent, no cross faction in-game chat, etc. The list could go on for pages probably.
fair points all.
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Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
08.27.2013 , 12:14 PM | #9
Not only that, but even in regs you'll have 4 man premades now going against pugs in arenas.That'll be a whole HEAP of QQ the moment that hits live.
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foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
08.27.2013 , 01:29 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
Not only that, but even in regs you'll have 4 man premades now going against pugs in arenas.That'll be a whole HEAP of QQ the moment that hits live.
no doubt. the only long term saving grace is solo rated arena Q (largely different population from 4v4 players). and that's only if they figure out a way to deal with players dropping, which is a very real issue when the 3 teammates have no intrinsic connection/loyalty to each other. a 4m will likely stay in it even if they're getting wiped. as a solo? hell, depending on my mood, I'd quit if I took one look at my comp or the other team's and thought it was a hopeless match. and I quit a lot less frequently than many (I'd have said most before transfers made regs utterly dire).
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