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How can this game lack innovation so much...

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How can this game lack innovation so much...

TheNahash's Avatar


TheNahash
08.24.2013 , 04:07 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by malistyx View Post
I ll give you my opinion on this, whether you accept it or not it is up to you. SWG was way ahead of its time in terms of ideas. If I list them down it will take a while and that is not the point. At the same time it suffered from terrible management decisions and to some extend like SWTOR was trying to chase a a utopia without first securing its base. Also when SWG was released those ideas could not be properly implemented as the technology was not there. Now it is available and yet SWTOR chose to ignore this, to the disappointment of many of us, prefering instead system used in that other game, which in fact will always be better in that other game.
OK, but my question to you is, if you were a developer would you choose to "copy" ideas from a game that didn't do as well as it was expected and after a while lost a huge part of its player base or from a game that has been consistently lucrative for almost a decade now?

I think that a common mistake SWG players make (and, to some extent, veteran MMO players in general) is that they think that just because an X MMO had a Y feature that they enjoyed, SWTOR should have it as well. Now add to that the fact that both SWG and SWTOR are based on Star Wars and it kind of makes sense why people compare the two.
But they shouldn't.
SWG was, for some people, a great game. It lived for 8 years and by the there weren't really that many people left playing it. It could've been because it was too innovative, or because the management was horrible or simply because WoW was "the cool new thing to do".
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't make sense from a business point of view to try to copy a game that didn't do as well as expected.

Quote: Originally Posted by malistyx View Post
Now regarding SWG's death. Was SWTOR the only reason that SWG ended, imo NO. Was it the main reason YES. What I mean is that SWG after 8 years of running had a small player base that had endured all the hardships an MMO could possible have and yet had remained faithful to it. Also keep in mind that until the shutdown was announced SWG still had these numbers with subscription.

If SWG had been any other MMO without the SW logo, it would have continued to exist and proof of that are games like Vanguard which belong to the same company with probably even smaller player base, but still running. It was the contractual issues behind the SW licence along with SWG's low income production yet high risk for SWTOR that caused it to shut down. Business wise it was a good decision from LA part as now SWTOR even with F2P would have about two thirds of the population it has as most SWG players would have returned back to SWG as they usually did.
Again, no ones says it didn't have a player base. But as you said so yourself, it was a rather small player base. And yes, obviously, other MMOs could survive but the IP itself was a huge burden. And once LucasArts made a deal with Bioware/EA, it was over for SWG but NOT because of SWTOR. Because they built a Star Wars game, it lasted for some years and then it wasn't doing well. They were hoping that SWTOR would make them more money and SWG was an old and kind of "tired" game by the time it ended.
I know it had those numbers with subscriptions. The real question, however, is what were those numbers. And I think you'd agree that they weren't what LucasArts or Sony would consider "acceptable" for a game with a Star Wars story.

And what you're saying about SWG goes for SWTOR too. If it didn't have the SW logo it would have been a huge success because people wouldn't have been hyping it like it was the Second Coming. And if there's a fanbase that enjoys building something up only to tear it down to pieces after it's released, it's the Star Wars fanbase.

Again, I'm not trying to offend you or any other SWG fan, but I highly doubt they would have returned, as you say. People very rarely go back to something that is old, especially when there is a multitude of options in the market today, which wasn't true for many of the years that SWG was still alive and yet people didn't really ever "return" (SWG lost a lot of subscribers and never got back on its feet). Sure, some would return but, again, do you honestly think the number of people who'd return to a 10 year old game with a very small population would be enough to make a difference?

Quote: Originally Posted by malistyx View Post
Now what you should be asking yourself is how lucrative SWTOR actually is? Investment wise I believe it is a huge flop. SWTOR within a year lost half of its population and although F2P did manage to stabilize things and even get a slight increase, it does not even come near to being lucrative as you say. SWG in its darkest hour (NGE) and one of the worst decisions in MMO history, managed to keep half its population with subscription. Can you imagine SWTOR without F2P?

If both games were still active you would have seen an even worse fate for SWTOR, while SWG would have died quietly eventually of old age.
What I honestly believe about SWTOR is that it wasn't (and might still not be) as lucrative as EA expected it to be, considering it's a Star Wars game, has a huge number of fans and there is no real alternative lore wise.
I do not, however, think it was not lucrative enough to keep it around. SWG had run its course by the time they decided it was time to pull the plug and, quite frankly, what is there to do for an 8 year old game that took a huge hit and never got back on its feet again? What does a company stand to gain from keeping it alive?

I also want to add one last thing:

Memory is a very, very tricky thing.
Once something is over and done, we remember the things we enjoyed as something exceptional (when most of them really weren't) and the really bad things as minor inconveniences (when they, also, really weren't just that). I realize that there are certain things that SWG had that SWTOR probably will never have but there is also the possibility that people remember the things they enjoyed about SWG but forget all of the things that made them unsubscribe (and then maybe come back, unsub again etc).
SWTOR is not SWG, nor will it ever be, for various reasons. And it shouldn't be. It already tried to copy WoW and people didn't like old ideas in a new setting. SWG "died" for various reasons - one of them might be SWTOR, but it definitely wasn't the only or even the most important reason: that was the fact that it just ran its course and didn't do as expected.
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WooliestWorm's Avatar


WooliestWorm
08.24.2013 , 05:30 PM | #22
The story was the main innovation for swtor, to be honest as has been mentioned before it's likely that's about as much innovation as the general community will accept, everyone says they want these things but ultimately they'd probably come at the expense of other content that people consider necessary.

Quote: Originally Posted by malistyx View Post
SWTOR has companions to help you in your quests and provide some more depth to the character stories. Very good idea, very badly implemented. In Baldur’s gate companion stories were so good that you could have restarted the game with different companion configurations just to see it play out. In SWTOR there is no real dilemma, no real choice you have to make and almost every choice you make (with few notable exceptions) leads to the same outcome. On top of that to make things worse you can even interrupt the dialogue if it does not go your way, until you are satisfied… So much for this system, after playing let us say a Sith warrior once, it is over for this general class.
I can't help but think you picked the worst possible class for your example here. Of every companion for every class Jaesa is the one that your decisions affect the most.

AlexDougherty's Avatar


AlexDougherty
08.25.2013 , 04:44 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by malistyx View Post
I have been meaning to write this review for some time now, but every time I found an excuse to postpone doing so. I believe this last announced PvP update is what finally pulled the trigger. I am sure many of you guys will disagree with what will be mentioned below but keep in mind this is my point of view. You are free to debate any point you like but please keep it civil.

Just to put things into perspective I have been a subscriber in this game from the beginning. I had been a subscriber to Star Wars Galaxies for more than 7 years and throughout all its phases. (Pre-CU, CU, NGE, post NGE, final days).

I am still surprised on how SWTOR with its huge budget came up so short… The lack of innovation is simply astonishing. I mean sure like most people out there I really enjoyed the storyline and the dialogues, but even that gets old very fast and other than this, what does SWTOR have to offer? Let us compare a few systems between SWTOR and SWG to see what I mean.
SWTOR was the first story driven MMO, this was an innovation, it has it's drawbacks but it was innovation.

Quote:
For PvE, as mentioned earlier SWTOR looked amazing with its storyline, an element that bioware from the Baldur’s Gate days had mastered. SWG on the other hand being a first generation MMORPG, quest wise it was the typical fed-ex, gather, kill number of type of quests.

If one looks under the surface though, after leveling up one character in both games, he would realize that in SWTOR you mostly do the same lame quests just with voice over and cinematics. This is an amazing experience for the first time but it gets old VERY fast. Furthermore, how many times will it take before you are disgusted from that flashpoint or that operation no matter how well it is designed? Nightmare mode? Seriously? At least for me, there goes immersion…

On SWG on the other hand your leveling quest options, while of the same basic nature, were spread out over the galaxy in endless paths. On top of that what really made the difference was that SWG, at least in its latest form, had many end-game systems to greatly expand your experience. While its heroic quests (operation equivalents) were very simplistic and sub-par compared to SWTOR, you had other systems such as the Galactic Civil War, Player Cities, Creature Handler and quite a few others.
The point of the quests taking part on the same planet was to allow you to quest with your friends, if everybody is doing the same planet for the same levels, then you could quite easily hook up together and do some heroics and quests together. It was done this way for social reasons.

Quote:
SWG had housing and player cities. You could choose you own house (which was player crafted) place it almost anywhere in the world you liked and use your imagination to decorate the interior with endless possibilities. On top of that you could use your guild, friend or simple real estate incentives to gather more people, form and run a city with taxes, shops, areas of specialization etc. The world changed everytime you logged in.

SWTOR has… a ship. The same ship for every sith in the galaxy, with zero customization options. That is all.
In SWG you could be a non combatant entertainer or crafter (in the older days there were many more professions which were later bottle necked into specific paths), be a combatant with one of the factions, remain neutral etc.
In SWTOR every sith warrior ends up being the emperor’s wrath, while every sith inquisitor a member of the dark council etc. The title loses its meaning. If it was a single player game like Baldur’s Gate than it would have worked perfectly, but on an MMO… I would personally prefer being one of the many captains in the imperial army rather than one of the army of emperor’s wrath clones.
Player housing doesn't work when you are doing all your missions on one planet, you have no reason to leave, but some customisation on the ships would be nice, especially the interiors, I'm surprised EA hasn't cottoned on to the fact people like to customise things especially living spaces.

Quote:
SWTOR has companions to help you in your quests and provide some more depth to the character stories. Very good idea, very badly implemented. In Baldur’s gate companion stories were so good that you could have restarted the game with different companion configurations just to see it play out. In SWTOR there is no real dilemma, no real choice you have to make and almost every choice you make (with few notable exceptions) leads to the same outcome. On top of that to make things worse you can even interrupt the dialogue if it does not go your way, until you are satisfied… So much for this system, after playing let us say a Sith warrior once, it is over for this general class.
I kind of agree and disagree, yes some variation in companions would be nice, but those companions and their stories are well crafted (if sometimes annoying)

Quote:
In SWG you had a few types of companions with different type of behavior and style. You could have droids that could assist you in combat, crafting, entertaining (it was a unique profession in SWG), which were player crafted and customizable. You could have factional troops to support you in combat which to be true were far worse than the SWTOR companions in doing so. Or you could have bio engineered creatures. The last option was a very robust system on its own, involving harvesting DNA from creatures around the galaxy and creating a pet to follow/help you customizable with its own traits and attributes, which could even be result of discovered mutations.

Last but not least is space. SWTOR has a starship on rails type of combat with linear progression and customization options, to compare to SWGs fully enabled 3d flight simulator that was introduced with Jump to Lightspeed and easily matched games like Tie fighter. In SWG you had pvp options and ships, depending on type that could be mounted by one, two or up to eight characters. JTL was a game on its own for many that played SWG, while SWTOR space combat, well to put it mildly, is a huge step backwards.
Slightly unfair, EA has no base code for space combat, they would have to write it from scratch, which for what is a single aspect of a larger game is unpractical. But that said, space combat is disappointing

Quote:
PVP is yet another one of the points in SWTOR that was well polished but with a serious lack of vision. Character animations are good and combat is engaging in a warzone. Some warzones like Huttbal were a very pleasant surprise and one of the few innovations SWTOR has to offer. Furthermore the classes are relatively well balanced compared to other MMOs. Problem is that the classes were created with only this in mind and balanced as such. It is next to impossible to have a large scale war with these classes and that was proven amongst others in the Ilum fiasco, where you had melee classes that their only means of participation in the lag fest combat was to buff others in order to get indirect kill counts.
Yeah, the lag can be a right pain in the neck.

Quote:
SWG combat suffered many upgrades/downgrades. Possibly the best incarnation in my opinion and closest to what SWTOR has was during the CU. While it never reached the combat reflectiveness of SWTOR, it had other merits which again when summed up created an equally interesting if not better experience. In SWG you were not bottlenecked in your choice of weapon, although class bonuses did favor a specific type usually. Furthermore weapon/ability range was up to 64m instead of 30-35m that SWTOR has. This gave a much Star Wars like combat, where the two factions would hold their lines. Even Jedi could hold a blaster and take some shots from range if required.

But the ultimate addition to SWG that totally changed the playfield compared to SWTOR was the integration of its robust space combat with the ground combat. In the final months of SWG, atmospheric flight was enabled and characters could take their custom made star fighters or multi passenger ships and support ground combat. You could in fact fly over and shoot at pvpers on the ground with your ships laser cannons while they could respond with RPGs.

To sum up I am still perplexed on how SWTOR can have such a lack of vision for the future despite all the different MMO experiences available and the past experience from SWG. Instead of trying to innovate and create, every single choice they make points out to cloning the decaying king of MMOs. While PvP arenas are not a bad option to have, it is one more step further away from having an immersive virtual world in the SW universe. In my humble opinion as a PvPer, FIX FIRST MEANINGFUL WORLD PVP (waiting since Ilum) and then add stuff like arenas. You already have arena like combat with the WZs, if I wanted this type of experience I would playing more COD and not an MMORPG. To those of you that forget, one of the Ms stands for massive, not 16 or 8 player!
Swtor has plenty of innovation, just not the innovation you were looking for, it's all very well saying they had dozens of MMO to act as inspiration, but if you copy something too closely you get sued, and you still have to write the code yourself. For a first attempt at an MMO Swtor is quite good, they would probably do all sorts of thing differently if they had to do it again, but then so would most companies that have produced MMO's.

I get you want SWG back, but it isn't going to happen, and this game is not going to change into SWG, for all sorts of legal reasons. If you want improvements post on the "suggestion box" page of "general discussion", Ea do read them, they might not do it, but they do read them.
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Osskask's Avatar


Osskask
08.25.2013 , 08:22 AM | #24
I played SWTOR, SW:G, WoW, among others, and have to agree with the OP, though I disagree with the method he used to state his points. No game will ever be SW:G again. Even the EMU is having trouble after years of trying. This game is a WoW clone, with a single player aspect added (space combat) and companions added to make WoW style crafting not suck as much.

Using SWG to explain why SWTOR lacks innovation is less persuasive than pointing out just how similar it is to WOW.

I seriously doubt we'll ever have another open world sandbox style game with the complexity of SW:G when it comes to player classes, crafting, housing, socialization, or adventuring. That style appeals to a VERY small audience, and no game developer is going to spend the money to develop a game that is probably going to lose money. You have to remember - SW:G had a HUGE learning curve, and many people left within a week because they were dropped in a city and had no idea how to get experience, craft, or hunt. Whenever a player "helper" would take the time and help, the new user would typically stick around. Unfortunately that relies on the player base, and more and more the users want to be spoon fed their content a'la WoW and SWTOR style.
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Size-Matters-Not's Avatar


Size-Matters-Not
08.26.2013 , 12:49 PM | #25
Here's hoping Chris Robert's Star Citizen bucks the trend, truly innovates and gives us what we want in a MMO game. Based on the crowd funding success, hopefully it's an indicator of a creative/development model shift from what investors think we want to what gamers really want.
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malistyx's Avatar


malistyx
08.30.2013 , 11:21 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by TheNahash View Post
OK, but my question to you is, if you were a developer would you choose to "copy" ideas from a game that didn't do as well as it was expected and after a while lost a huge part of its player base or from a game that has been consistently lucrative for almost a decade now?

Well imo there are many ways of looking at this. Yes copying the most successful game does make sense at least in beginning. Now keep trying to copy it after quite a few have tried under the same logic and failed does raise some questions. Take also into consideration that some have tried and failed not because their game was not good or polished, but because the game they were trying to copy has already reach maximum potential in this type of playstyle and minor innovations will not be enough to counter the history people have developed in that MMO and drive them away.

I think that a common mistake SWG players make (and, to some extent, veteran MMO players in general) is that they think that just because an X MMO had a Y feature that they enjoyed, SWTOR should have it as well. Now add to that the fact that both SWG and SWTOR are based on Star Wars and it kind of makes sense why people compare the two.
But they shouldn't.
SWG was, for some people, a great game. It lived for 8 years and by the there weren't really that many people left playing it. It could've been because it was too innovative, or because the management was horrible or simply because WoW was "the cool new thing to do".
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't make sense from a business point of view to try to copy a game that didn't do as well as expected.

Nobody said to try and copy SWG, just not ignore all the features it had and at least incorporate some that do make sense based on the common setting. I chose SWG to compare because I believe SWG to be one of the most innovative games I have played, the rest are very VERY similar. Only now are people and developers re-discovering the potential behind games like SWG or UO.



Again, no ones says it didn't have a player base. But as you said so yourself, it was a rather small player base. And yes, obviously, other MMOs could survive but the IP itself was a huge burden. And once LucasArts made a deal with Bioware/EA, it was over for SWG but NOT because of SWTOR. Because they built a Star Wars game, it lasted for some years and then it wasn't doing well. They were hoping that SWTOR would make them more money and SWG was an old and kind of "tired" game by the time it ended.
I know it had those numbers with subscriptions. The real question, however, is what were those numbers. And I think you'd agree that they weren't what LucasArts or Sony would consider "acceptable" for a game with a Star Wars story.

]Well the only thing I can tell you is my personal experience on this, take it as you wish. SWG implemented server transfers in late first quarter of 2011 if I remember correctly. Until then the game had endless dead servers which really did not help it all. With the merge the destination servers actually had a lot of people. On my server we had 30 vs 30 pvp fights during that time and I even remember crushing from the lag quite a few times (and yet I was crying from joy despite the crash due to the population out there). The dust did not even settle down and they announced the closure... People were angry.. again... and people left. Yet still many remained till the end.

And what you're saying about SWG goes for SWTOR too. If it didn't have the SW logo it would have been a huge success because people wouldn't have been hyping it like it was the Second Coming. And if there's a fanbase that enjoys building something up only to tear it down to pieces after it's released, it's the Star Wars fanbase.

Again, I'm not trying to offend you or any other SWG fan, but I highly doubt they would have returned, as you say. People very rarely go back to something that is old, especially when there is a multitude of options in the market today, which wasn't true for many of the years that SWG was still alive and yet people didn't really ever "return" (SWG lost a lot of subscribers and never got back on its feet). Sure, some would return but, again, do you honestly think the number of people who'd return to a 10 year old game with a very small population would be enough to make a difference?

I ll also tell you another of my experiences. While being subbed in SWG I tried many new games coming out and so did many that played SWG. After so many years playing the same game you do get tired and bored, no question about it. What I did realize though was what a short time it took me to get bored of those other games and return and same applied for the majority of SWG players who managed to endure the NGE. The NGE was a whole different story and the people that left then, left for other reasons and stayed away. Even in this case though they remained devoted to the game in their own sense to the point that it has never been done before for another MMO.

Would the numbers have made a difference absolutely NOT, but that does not mean that the legacy of that game should be abandoned. Especially when the whole industry is making a turn towards this direction.


What I honestly believe about SWTOR is that it wasn't (and might still not be) as lucrative as EA expected it to be, considering it's a Star Wars game, has a huge number of fans and there is no real alternative lore wise.
I do not, however, think it was not lucrative enough to keep it around. SWG had run its course by the time they decided it was time to pull the plug and, quite frankly, what is there to do for an 8 year old game that took a huge hit and never got back on its feet again? What does a company stand to gain from keeping it alive?

Again I will remind you that SOE has kept alive games with smaller player base and much less committed subscribers. I believe, without basing this to any facts, just my intuition, that when the deal was made for SWTOR nobody expected SWG to live that long or the most popular game to retain high numbers. The expectations for SWTOR were to become the next big thing and to do that it needed every bit of push it could get and that included SWG players. As I mentioned earlier SWG players proved to be extremely resilient to other games and I honestly think this was a chance LA could not take. They were right in their assessment. The way SWTOR came out, most SWG players would have returned within 5-6 months leaving this game crippled. When in game try asking around other players if they played SWG, you ll be surprised how many you will find.

I also want to add one last thing:

Memory is a very, very tricky thing.
Once something is over and done, we remember the things we enjoyed as something exceptional (when most of them really weren't) and the really bad things as minor inconveniences (when they, also, really weren't just that). I realize that there are certain things that SWG had that SWTOR probably will never have but there is also the possibility that people remember the things they enjoyed about SWG but forget all of the things that made them unsubscribe (and then maybe come back, unsub again etc).

This is very true, but I believe does not apply in my case as I never unsubbed from SWG. I tried other stuff in parallel or did not log for some time but never left. That is not the issue though, what does make me sad is that I remember very well the problems SWG had, the clunky animations, the lack of Z axis on ground, the bugs, the bad decisions, the lack of advertisement, the stubbornness to resist server transfers till the very end, and while SWTOR to its credit does not have most of these, it is a very boring and flat game. If it were single player game with a beginning and and end like KOTTOR it would have been great, but as an MMO...

SWTOR is not SWG, nor will it ever be, for various reasons. And it shouldn't be. It already tried to copy WoW and people didn't like old ideas in a new setting. SWG "died" for various reasons - one of them might be SWTOR, but it definitely wasn't the only or even the most important reason: that was the fact that it just ran its course and didn't do as expected.
I agree with you here. My post was not to bring SWG back, but rather why SWTOR lacks innovation. Innovation in any form. Some people mentioned in their posts that the story was SWTOR's contribution. I thought so too in the beginning, but I remember discussing with friends in this subject and placing bets on whether they would be able to support this addition over time. Unfortunately my fears were realized as despite the huge budget committed, the story has no continuity. On the contrary it stops abruptly and there are few means to continue it due to the lack of vision. I ll give you an example, you finish your story line and you are the wrath or one of the dark council etc., what then,,, The expansion offered a little, but the content was depleted within a month... They can obviously not sustain this rate. Take companions, you go through their story and again everything ends... no continuity. For a single player game this is great, it worked for Baldur's gate, but for an MMO it breaks any kind of iimmersion and leads to boredom and repeat quests as endgame. Finally the lack of vision comes in the fact that they threw everything out there from the beginning, now there is not much left to add... I was surprised how fast I became sith, then sith lord, then darth/wrath then??? Same with companions you marry everyone and then?

One lesson they could have learned from SWG was that real MMO heroes and epic tales are the ones created through common experiences in a persistent virtual world and accordingly commonly acknowledged from the community, not pre-made identical paths assigned to everyone from the beginning of the game taht just give you a fake title. Likewise, social items and activities are the ones that actually bring people together not items that are just marked as "social".

Nydus's Avatar


Nydus
08.30.2013 , 12:12 PM | #27
No offense to the OPer, but I've read so many of these type of posts I have to just cut and paste a standard response to the SWG > TOR arguments.

SWG > TOR: dwellings, crafting, space combat.

TOR > SWG: game stability, story line, accessible jedi/sith, essential game mechanics don't change and hard earned gear suddenly no longer is usable...

I REALLY miss certain aspects of SWG but the reality is that I rage-quit SWG for good reasons and I as lacking in innovation as TOR might seem, they also haven't made the sort of missteps that were common to SWG. It was clear from the beginning that SWG made some huge mistakes and the fact that a year or so in they decided to significantly change the game mechanics speaks to this.

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malistyx's Avatar


malistyx
08.30.2013 , 12:23 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Nydus View Post
No offense to the OPer, but I've read so many of these type of posts I have to just cut and paste a standard response to the SWG > TOR arguments.

SWG > TOR: dwellings, crafting, space combat.

TOR > SWG: game stability, story line, accessible jedi/sith, essential game mechanics don't change and hard earned gear suddenly no longer is usable...

I REALLY miss certain aspects of SWG but the reality is that I rage-quit SWG for good reasons and I as lacking in innovation as TOR might seem, they also haven't made the sort of missteps that were common to SWG. It was clear from the beginning that SWG made some huge mistakes and the fact that a year or so in they decided to significantly change the game mechanics speaks to this.

- Arcada
While I agree regarding the core game game mechanics with all my heart, the part regarding the hard earned gear is not that clear for me...

In SWTOR I recall being full Elite War Hero and then suddenly back to zero with the new expansion. In fact, worse then the new player without expertise! SWG on the other hand for the most part was not a gear based game so I am surprised you mentioned this one. In fact in SWG as most of the items were player made, you had the essentials with very little effort and these were enough to compete, not dominate, but compete.

theUndead's Avatar


theUndead
08.30.2013 , 06:44 PM | #29
OP I just want to ask you one thing. In your latest reply I read how you feel about SWG innovation and how it stood afloat right up until the end. But you did not acknowledge how that other game still has the most subs and is still the benchmark. While I understand your opinion on SWG you can't base every opinion you have on this games direction and mechanics to it. What I'm saying is although your recent post went into quite a bit of depth I feel that you need to remember that innovation is a subjective thing to people and while you feel SWG had it most feel the other game had more.
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Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
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AlexDougherty's Avatar


AlexDougherty
08.31.2013 , 02:55 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by malistyx View Post
I agree with you here. My post was not to bring SWG back, but rather why SWTOR lacks innovation. Innovation in any form. Some people mentioned in their posts that the story was SWTOR's contribution. I thought so too in the beginning, but I remember discussing with friends in this subject and placing bets on whether they would be able to support this addition over time. Unfortunately my fears were realized as despite the huge budget committed, the story has no continuity. On the contrary it stops abruptly and there are few means to continue it due to the lack of vision. I ll give you an example, you finish your story line and you are the wrath or one of the dark council etc., what then,,, The expansion offered a little, but the content was depleted within a month... They can obviously not sustain this rate. Take companions, you go through their story and again everything ends... no continuity. For a single player game this is great, it worked for Baldur's gate, but for an MMO it breaks any kind of iimmersion and leads to boredom and repeat quests as endgame. Finally the lack of vision comes in the fact that they threw everything out there from the beginning, now there is not much left to add... I was surprised how fast I became sith, then sith lord, then darth/wrath then??? Same with companions you marry everyone and then?

One lesson they could have learned from SWG was that real MMO heroes and epic tales are the ones created through common experiences in a persistent virtual world and accordingly commonly acknowledged from the community, not pre-made identical paths assigned to everyone from the beginning of the game taht just give you a fake title. Likewise, social items and activities are the ones that actually bring people together not items that are just marked as "social".
Dark Blue doesn't show up well on Black or Grey(quote boxs), can I respectfully suggest you change to another colour, that way people can read what you are saying without having to highlight the text.
Peace can be found, above all passions. Through passion, I may gain strength.
Through strength, I may gain power. Through power, I may gain victory.
But for every enemy fallen, a new foe rises.
For every chain broken, new chains bind me. Only the Force can set me free.