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Tanking Workshop Brainstorm

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Tanking Workshop Brainstorm

Grumpftard's Avatar


Grumpftard
08.13.2013 , 03:14 PM | #11
Another one you can do is no-stack / low-stack Dreadtooth (or any world boss, really) He always around now and it's not really instanced.
Put DPS in the middle and have tanks on opposite sides.

Tank DPS Tank

Tanks are not allowed to touch the boss and can't let boss touch them. They are only allowed to taunt and kite, while DPS does its thing. Lesson in taunt swapping, dual tank coordination, and kiting. See if you can keep your deeps from getting crushed.
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
08.13.2013 , 03:17 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Grumpftard View Post
Tanks are not allowed to touch the boss and can't let boss touch them. They are only allowed to taunt and kite, while DPS does its thing. Lesson in taunt swapping, dual tank coordination, and kiting. See if you can keep your deeps from getting crushed.
It's a really good idea. Unfortunately, Dreadtooth moves very fast while simultaneously applying a slow to his tank, so I'm not sure what you suggest is possible with this boss. Maybe with a different world boss, like Primal Destroyer.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
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Lord_of_Mu's Avatar


Lord_of_Mu
08.13.2013 , 04:04 PM | #13
For any Hardmode flashpoint, it's best if you view the tanks as ranged player. Melee just don't get to see as much as a healer or ranged dps.

That being said.

Mandalorian Raiders - Trash with no taunting or CC:

Tests movement, threat distribution / aoe tanking, cooldown usage.

Mandalorian Raiders - Bonus Boss hit fewer than 2 times on his aoe sweep attack:

Tests movement and ability reaction speeds, kiting and single target tanking.

Athiss - Beast of Vodal Kressh. Tank the boss next to the doorway into the tomb:

Tests situational awareness, positioning, aoe tanking, single target tanking.

Athiss - Prophet of Vodal: Drop the void zones evenly along the steps on one side, reposition the boss with minimal movement, kite the flams with out getting burnt while tanking the boss.

Tests situational awareness, single target threat while kiting, void zone deployment.

Cadimemu - Bonus boss: Move out of the aoe using Q,E or W but no S key.

Tests movement, situational awareness and reaction time.

Cadimemu - Final boss: Have the tank break the majority of the shackles while tanking the boss.

Tests movement, situational awareness, reaction time, single target threat, group awareness.

For tank swapping I'd suggest you just go with the ops encounters that require tank swapping. Voice chat goes a long way towards making a tank swap clean. However if you're looking to have you tanks learn how to swap targets with out voice chat I'd look at having the other tank as my focus. Unless there isn't a debuff mechanic that is applied to the other tank.

But the main thing is, use voice chat. It helps sooooo much.

BattleGracefully's Avatar


BattleGracefully
08.13.2013 , 05:34 PM | #14
I have always liked going into say EC HM or even SM and do non-stop trash pulls by getting one or two of your dps to pull the next group before your finished with the one you have. I have broken many a tanks doing this and be broken myself but i find its a good way to teach threat management and when to taunt or what to taunt.
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Deathstalker_'s Avatar


Deathstalker_
08.14.2013 , 09:15 AM | #15
I will definitely express my interest. I've always been willing to take hits, so I decided to run a Tank to make that work for the group. Unfortunately, I have no metric for how good or bad I am at the actual Tanking. Something like this would be amazing if it was run every so often to help new Tanks learn the ropes. Unfortunately, there are two drawbacks: first, I don't have a single Level 55 character yet (was trying to find a class I like). Second, my only Tank on the Ebon Hawk server is a Level 27 Juggernaut. You don't mention what side your guild is on, but the fact that you have more Republic characters than Imperial characters makes me think it's a Republic guild, so I'm pretty much SooL there.

Wait...I do have a Guardian on the Ebon Hawk server. However, she's geared for DPS, so it would take quite a while to swap her mods over to Tanking versions. Especially since Cybertech (her crafting skill) can't even start making Tanking mods until at least Level 33. Still, if you're willing to work with lower level characters (probably not, since you'd have to find areas I could survive in to teach me), I could do some work on that character to get it swapped over to Tanking.

Dragonexadon's Avatar


Dragonexadon
08.14.2013 , 09:37 AM | #16
I am willing to do these same workshops on POT5 if anyone is interested. I think it is a great idea.
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
08.14.2013 , 01:47 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Deathstalker_ View Post
I will definitely express my interest. I've always been willing to take hits, so I decided to run a Tank to make that work for the group. Unfortunately, I have no metric for how good or bad I am at the actual Tanking. Something like this would be amazing if it was run every so often to help new Tanks learn the ropes. Unfortunately, there are two drawbacks: first, I don't have a single Level 55 character yet (was trying to find a class I like). Second, my only Tank on the Ebon Hawk server is a Level 27 Juggernaut. You don't mention what side your guild is on, but the fact that you have more Republic characters than Imperial characters makes me think it's a Republic guild, so I'm pretty much SooL there.

Wait...I do have a Guardian on the Ebon Hawk server. However, she's geared for DPS, so it would take quite a while to swap her mods over to Tanking versions. Especially since Cybertech (her crafting skill) can't even start making Tanking mods until at least Level 33. Still, if you're willing to work with lower level characters (probably not, since you'd have to find areas I could survive in to teach me), I could do some work on that character to get it swapped over to Tanking.
We've picked a time for the tanking workshop. I'll post it on the official Ebon Hawk sub-forum, and anyone who is interested on Rep side is welcome to come. For the record, I'm in <Aisthesis>, which is a Rep side progression guild.

I think that getting tanking workshops on the other servers as well (especially Pot5 and Harbinger) would be really fantastic. I'll see what I can do about saving my notes from this one.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

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Deathstalker_'s Avatar


Deathstalker_
08.14.2013 , 03:11 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
We've picked a time for the tanking workshop. I'll post it on the official Ebon Hawk sub-forum, and anyone who is interested on Rep side is welcome to come. For the record, I'm in <Aisthesis>, which is a Rep side progression guild.

I think that getting tanking workshops on the other servers as well (especially Pot5 and Harbinger) would be really fantastic. I'll see what I can do about saving my notes from this one.
Would a lower-level character (i.e. not level 50 or 55) be welcome? I understand if not; you'd have to figure out multiple areas where mobs would provide a challenge to players of the appropriate levels, and bosses with the right mechanics to teach the ropes. Frankly, that's a massive amount of work. I can understand wanting to keep things simple.

Also, you may want to look into having regular sessions with this. Maybe have a guild of teachers who hold a class once every week or two. The way I figure it, there will always be new players (or players who have played other roles and are trying Tanking) who could use a primer on proper Tanking practices. It needn't even be a guild, either; I just figure a guild would allow easier communication between the people running it, and allow easy induction of new teachers so that you don't have to do everything yourself. Just something to mull over.

I'll probably wait about a day for the thread to post in the Ebon Hawk server forum, since I expect that will have the time. I'm not sure how much I'll be able to learn since I'm not specced for Tanking (I'd have to gain 3 levels, make all my Tanking mods, then reverse engineer them to get at least Blue quality to match what's available from the Vendors, I'm thinking), but I'll at least show up and try to learn what I can. It would be great to get an idea of how good or bad of a Tank I am, and this would give me a much better metric than 'Some guy I haven't attacked yet is attacking my Comp. Is that okay because I haven't attacked him yet, or bad because I don't have automatic threat on him?' questions.

EDIT: Oh, crap. I just realized: my DPS Guardian is actually on Harbinger. I don't have a Tank on Ebon Hawk. Well, I'll still keep an eye on things. If you do get this going on Harbinger, I'll be sure to show up with my Guardian Tank. As it is, don't be surprised if you get a Sentinel hanging around trying to pick up a few things even though they're the wrong role.

Nerdcommando's Avatar


Nerdcommando
08.15.2013 , 11:39 AM | #19
Well I see that you have set it up already; but I will throw in my 3 1/4 cents anyways (that's right I'm loaded with cents).

Teaching someone to tank is about teaching them a different philosophical approach to the game.

Philosophical tenet:
1) Your number one priority for an encounter is to provide control.
You are the anchor of each encounter. How good you are at this translates into DPS/Healer up-time. So how does one provide control to a fight.

1a) Every fight as a tank is a mechanics fight. You need to understand what is going to happen to everyone and the best way to balance long term positioning with the short term RNG. For example Stryak. Last night for my group he spawned by the entrance and not in the middle of the room on those stones like he normally does for us. Normally we aim him to the throne, but that wasn't possible. I had to look where my group was and choose the best place to position him so thundering blast didn't hit the group. A bad tank will try and force him by the throne because that was the plan ahead of time.

1b) Communicate. You need to be in communication with your fellow tank, you need to be in communication with healers for CD usage. You need to be able to tell the DPS hey I'm tanking stryak by the door and not the throne so put your orbitals there.

1c) Be wrong acting/reacting. When something happens off schedule or someone screws up - do something don't just wait for the group to wipe and say, "I did what you asked me to do." If you know the fight and the needs of all 4 roles (mdps,rdps,heals,tanks) you can react to RNG in an intelligent manor. Your choice may be the wrong one; but you made a split second call to save the situation and that's better than watching it fall apart. Every time you make those mistakes think about why it didn't work. You will then make better decisions in the future.

2) Threat.
Yes I know this is part of 1, but I think its important to separate it from 1 and think about it separately. This is the mechanic that allows 1 to happen.
2a) Guard - 90% of the time on a melee. Their pulling threshold is lower than ranged I believe.
2b) Opener - Each rotation for the classes is different and everyone has their own opinion, but in general its something like this. Heavy threat ability(s) 1 to 3 followed by a taunt (for guaranteeing boss attention for a few seconds while some abilities come off CD or a DPS gets a bunch of lucky crits in their opening rotation). AGain this is highly debatable - but the jist of this is pretty solid.
2c) Adds. Be prepared to have an AOE taunt and or regular taunt for them. If you use your AOE taunt say so in case you pull the boss from the other tank. He can save his single target taunt for your AOE in case that happens.

3) Gearing/numbers
Our numbers game happens before the op begins. Its a stat shuffle and keyboardninja obviously knows it. So listen to him and no as a beginner you don't know more than him, but ask anyway so you can learn why.

4) Don't be easily rattled.
Constructive criticism and brainstorming by other roles is very useful. They have a different perspective to the encounter and will notice things you didn't with that giant boss covering your whole screen.

Best of luck Keyboard Ninja. Please update the community on how it went.
Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy. - Steven Wright

nagatamen's Avatar


nagatamen
08.15.2013 , 12:06 PM | #20
Taking this idea a step further, what about class specific workshops?

Shadow Tanks have always been my main, but I've got a Guardian Tank I wouldn't mind learning more about too. For Shadow Tanks I can think of two issues I struggle with at times, Phase Walk placement (where and when to place, when to "recall" early instead of letting it fall off) and Optimal Self-Healing.

Don't have any ideas for the Phase Walk, but for self healing maybe ask the healer to limit themselves to only one type of heal for the tank? I don't know what fights or situations to test it with though.