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Sex and the Force


Yaksha's Avatar


Yaksha
12.21.2011 , 04:24 PM | #11
I've been playing a LS IA.

All the conversation options tagged with 'flirt', including some obviously inappropriate ones, have not generated DS points for me.

Then again, if LS/DS were not about morality, then it makes little sense for non-force classes to gain LS/DS points. So I still see them as morality. Perhaps for force users, it's morality + a little something else?

loopgru's Avatar


loopgru
12.21.2011 , 04:31 PM | #12
Following up from previous comments, I've finished the chain now and it really doesn't seem like a case of manipulating her.

Spoiler


As for "emotion = dark, 'peace' = light," there are *plenty* of occasions throughout the game where you can express affection for people, do nice things, etc, without it being dark, while you can be casually, rationally cruel and destructive left, right, and sideways and gain DS points without ever raising your voice. So caring about people, being nice, forming attachments (Vette comes to mind), and the like is A-OK... until the belt buckle hits the floor?

FlashbackJon's Avatar


FlashbackJon
12.21.2011 , 06:32 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by loopgru View Post
As for "emotion = dark, 'peace' = light," there are *plenty* of occasions throughout the game where you can express affection for people, do nice things, etc, without it being dark, while you can be casually, rationally cruel and destructive left, right, and sideways and gain DS points without ever raising your voice. So caring about people, being nice, forming attachments (Vette comes to mind), and the like is A-OK... until the belt buckle hits the floor?
As with all choices: it depends on the circumstances.

It's possible that Bioware simply considered any casual sexual encounter to be submitting to passion (not just lust, but overwhelming emotion), whereas the aforementioned attachments involve a much more controlled understanding of emotion?

I haven't seen but a fraction of the options, so I can't say for sure, but it's possible?
Adoko Kooba, Sith Marauder
Republic Mercy Corps | Imperial Mercenary Corps

Explorer 80, Socializer 80, Achiever 33, Killer 7

Yaksha's Avatar


Yaksha
12.21.2011 , 07:50 PM | #14
I guess at the end of the day, there is no way to 'capture' all the back story and circumstance that would really be needed, to assess whether such a situation was morally good or bad.

The LS/DS scale is arbitrary and artificial, and we never get enough information about our characters, the other characters or circumstance.

That being said, I think most LS/DS options are stereotypical for anyone familiar with star wars lore. Like other than being marked out, I don't think any are very surprisingly (although some are debatable).

We're still a really long way from video games where we can actually make choices of morality and for the game engine to be 'smart' enough to capture that.

Acushla's Avatar


Acushla
12.22.2011 , 09:59 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Yaksha View Post
I guess at the end of the day, there is no way to 'capture' all the back story and circumstance that would really be needed, to assess whether such a situation was morally good or bad.

The LS/DS scale is arbitrary and artificial, and we never get enough information about our characters, the other characters or circumstance.

That being said, I think most LS/DS options are stereotypical for anyone familiar with star wars lore. Like other than being marked out, I don't think any are very surprisingly (although some are debatable).

We're still a really long way from video games where we can actually make choices of morality and for the game engine to be 'smart' enough to capture that.
Good Points;

Without starting an argument (discussing morals generally about as dangerous as stampeding across a live minefield) Bioware did a fair job of presenting a moral compass in line with Star Wars 'lore'. The difficulty is that three people picked at random will 'probably' have three drastically different ideals about morality, and one of them 'probably' will be mortally offended no matter what choice is made.

LordOfTheDance's Avatar


LordOfTheDance
12.22.2011 , 11:57 PM | #16
More Bioware having a poor understanding of Star Wars lore and the force....

WOooo.

Its sad how right the, psychotic pre-launch, Jedi Knight forum turned out.

Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
12.23.2011 , 04:51 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Acushla View Post
Good Points;

Without starting an argument (discussing morals generally about as dangerous as stampeding across a live minefield) Bioware did a fair job of presenting a moral compass in line with Star Wars 'lore'. The difficulty is that three people picked at random will 'probably' have three drastically different ideals about morality, and one of them 'probably' will be mortally offended no matter what choice is made.
But the light and dark side aren't 100% about morality, stereotypically good and evil, are they? They are just perceived as such. Jedis are technically the same as chinese warrior monks, who give up all earthly pleasures to gain better control over themselves and the force.

In starwars legacy comic, during the 'massacre at Ossus', Cade Skywalker used dark side power to heal his master, Wolf Sazen, from certain death (he had been skewered by Darth Nihl). Thats already pretty paradoxical if you look at it only from morality perspective. How can healing someone be wrong? It was wrong because he gave in to emotion. Cade did that many times over the course of the series.

ps. Sith are generally perceived as 'evil' because they emphasize strife, and 'survival of the fittest' attitude over Jedis preaching of peace. To Sith, peace is a lie (as the sith code says).
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength
Through strength, I gain power
Through power, I gain victory
Through victory, my chains are broken

ps. If it was simple to determine what is bad and what is good, it wouldn't nearly be as fun nor make as good a story.
"What is a Sith? Over time, the beliefs have changed, but one constant has remained. The imposition of one's will on the force, on the environment surrounding one, on the galaxy itself." - Darth Wyyrlok III

Acushla's Avatar


Acushla
12.23.2011 , 08:59 AM | #18
Obi-Wan: Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

NaimiIflya's Avatar


NaimiIflya
12.23.2011 , 09:13 AM | #19
Attachments, they cause a fear of loss, and that can lead to the dark side, that is the story of the fall of Anakin Skywalker.
Larmonte Murho from Sanctum of the Exalted <Jedi Guardian>

PhilippKausch's Avatar


PhilippKausch
12.23.2011 , 12:29 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Acushla View Post
Obi-Wan: Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.
I really like that quote from Obi Wan. He seems to be one of the few Jedi, who actually recognizes the relativity of the Jedi views on the Force and morality.

My main char is a Sith Sorcerer, because I like the fact, that they don't deny or try to rationalise their emotions. But I began to become a bit dissatisfied after I've figured out that they think that love leads to weakness. I was hoping, that they see some strength in love, even if it would have been through the possible dark emotions it can generate, like hate, jealousy etc.