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Sith Assassin Tank Help


Rade_Harkin's Avatar


Rade_Harkin
12.21.2011 , 03:34 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Windkull View Post
However, because of the different mechanics certain classes are better at certain situations. Assassin tanks can hold aoe and main agro very well. Problem is they are the most prone to being spiked by one big hit. As the "avoidance" tank your always a few unlucky rolls away from taking 2 big hits and going down, which the mitigation tanks don't have to face as an issue.

That said, assassins have lots of activateable abilities and can be more reactive than their counterparts. Probably not the best tank for the hardest single target dps bosses around, but a good choice for some content nonetheless.
This kind of misinformation annoys me to no end.

Assassins. Are. Not. Avoidance. Tanks.

1. They have just as much armor as Juggernauts including all buffs from both classes.
2. They have higher Shield Chance and Absorption than Juggernauts including all buffs.
3. They have LESS Avoidance/Defense than Juggernauts including all buffs.

If anything, Juggernauts are slightly more fragile than Assassins.

DO SOME RESEARCH before trying to pass your information as fact.
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Harkin ("Tankasin")

Windkull's Avatar


Windkull
12.21.2011 , 03:40 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Katahn View Post
SA's are not "avoidance tanks", they use a combination of talents and abilities to give them similar mitigation values to what are enjoyed by BHs and SWs. The reference to them having "slightly higher avoidance" combined with their base armor being "light" has created the very false perception that they depend on dodging.

I'll point out that there are two other MMOs that have mitigation-type tanks that do not wear the heaviest armors in their respective games. These tanks also use a combination of talents and class abilities to mimic the effect of heavy armor. When was the last time anyone ever confused a druid tank in WoW with an "evasion tank"?
The problem is that its actually much more like DK tanking than Druid tanking when you try it .

I've done both and I don't feel like I have any issues tanking almost anything as an assassin, the mitigation etc is all there, but I must say, and equally geared juggernaught especially on a single hard hitting melee boss, has much less chance to get spiked down it seems. Maybe there will be some high armor pieces to take advantage of the multiplier at level 50, but for now, when the hits connect I feel it more than the powertech/jugg. Pretty easy to see this too in PVP, I maul light armor for over 3k, but had a crit only do 1300 against a trooper, while I hit a tank sage for ~1800 crits.

That said, the slight bit of extra damage I take usually upsets the healers less than the loss of agro a lot of the jugg tanks are having at least up to the 30s. I still feel very cooldown dependant though for pretty much both agro and mitigation, so its a style for a twitchier player.

Rade_Harkin's Avatar


Rade_Harkin
12.21.2011 , 03:43 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Windkull View Post
The problem is that its actually much more like DK tanking than Druid tanking when you try it .

I've done both and I don't feel like I have any issues tanking almost anything as an assassin, the mitigation etc is all there, but I must say, and equally geared juggernaught especially on a single hard hitting melee boss, has much less chance to get spiked down it seems. Maybe there will be some high armor pieces to take advantage of the multiplier at level 50, but for now, when the hits connect I feel it more than the powertech/jugg. Pretty easy to see this too in PVP, I maul light armor for over 3k, but had a crit only do 1300 against a trooper, while I hit a tank sage for ~1800 crits.

That said, the slight bit of extra damage I take usually upsets the healers less than the loss of agro a lot of the jugg tanks are having at least up to the 30s. I still feel very cooldown dependant though for pretty much both agro and mitigation, so its a style for a twitchier player.
I'm pretty sure your experience will vary when your "Tank Sage" (Shadow) wears actual Tank armor and uses a Tank build, instead of DPS armor/builds.

DPS Assassins/Shadows do not use Dark Charge (or whatever the jedi equivalent is), so they do not have the 150% armor buff.
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Harkin ("Tankasin")

Windkull's Avatar


Windkull
12.21.2011 , 03:48 PM | #14
DPS assassins and shadows fall into the get hit for over 3k and crushed category generally... But yeah, don't have experience in full tank gear yet. Also, did you factor in the dark charge debuff when you did your avoidance calculations? Your not going to have that going most likely if the assassin is DPSing instead of tanking in the group...

Rade_Harkin's Avatar


Rade_Harkin
12.21.2011 , 03:57 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Windkull View Post
DPS assassins and shadows fall into the get hit for over 3k and crushed category generally... But yeah, don't have experience in full tank gear yet. Also, did you factor in the dark charge debuff when you did your avoidance calculations? Your not going to have that going most likely if the assassin is DPSing instead of tanking in the group...
Sorry, what? We're talking about Tanking Assassins not DPS Assassins. What does the 5% melee damage debuff have to do with Avoidance?

You stated that Assassins are Avoidance Tanks and that kind of misinformation goes around more than you think so I had to clear that up.
Terra Firma - US PVP
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Harkin ("Tankasin")

Windkull's Avatar


Windkull
12.21.2011 , 04:04 PM | #16
I'm saying are you factoring in the 5% accuracy debuff you get on enemies when assassins tank as compared to not having it with other tanks when you did your calculations for avoidance. Making the enemy miss has the same results in the end as dodging the attack...

skinthinner's Avatar


skinthinner
12.21.2011 , 04:08 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Morce View Post
First thing, SA is not a MT, SA is a OT.


That is it.
wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong
"No plan of operations extends with certainty beyond the first encounter with the enemy's main strength" - Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

Ajahax's Avatar


Ajahax
12.21.2011 , 04:47 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by skinthinner View Post
wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong
It seems that we have sparked much debate!! It is very interesting to hear both sides...the fact is that Assassins can tanks!!! (tanking may vary!! LOL!)
When the SITH goes GOOD
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TheStampede's Avatar


TheStampede
12.24.2011 , 04:02 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Windkull View Post
I'm saying are you factoring in the 5% accuracy debuff you get on enemies when assassins tank
It's a 5% damage reduction, not a 5% accuracy debuff. Powertechs get the accuracy debuff with "Oil Slick," a 20% reduction. The Dark Charge buff reduces incoming damage by 5%. On average, all things being equal, and not counting buffs, Assassins have roughly 5% higher avoidance, but also higher shields, and absorption. They are more likely to dodge an attack, AS A BASE VALUE, but also more likely to take less damage from a connecting attack.

Summary: Assassin Tanks will tank your face off.

RobDingo's Avatar


RobDingo
12.24.2011 , 05:49 PM | #20
The 5% accuracy debuff comes when you Discharge your Dark Charge onto enemies. This 5% accuracy debuff on the mobs adds to your avoidance, since they're going to miss 5% more often than normal. the 5% melee damage debuff (On the Assassin) comes from having Dark Charge up.

Note, this doesn't mean I'm saying Assassin tanks are avoidance tanks. Just clarifying the confusion here.