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New FPs: HM Overtuned, SM Too Easy?


KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
08.07.2013 , 01:00 PM | #11
I was hoping for a pre-first-nerf LI HM, but I was expecting something on par with the existing HMs. The difficulty level was a pleasant surprise, perhaps halfway between those two extremes.

I went in on my Shadow tank with a Focus Sentinel, a Sharpshooter Gunslinger and a Gunnery Commando who had respeced to heals and was healing in his DPS gear (protip: accuracy ensures your heals never miss!). All of us were in full Underworld gear with some 75s. The coolest part though is we went in without reading any guides, listening to guildies who had done it already, or any spoilers of any sort. So, a complete blind clear.

We one-shot every boss except the one with the electrified floor.

So yeah, I don't think it's really over-tuned. The only reason we wiped on the electrified floor boss is our Focus sentinel was feeling cheesy and didn't want to stop DPSing the boss, so our healer (who was, if you recall, actually a DPS) had to keep her up through the damage. Coming in here in 66 gear with some 69 mods would definitely provide a serious challenge, but it would absolutely be doable. Most of the bosses require moderately high healing and a tank with good awareness. I think the tank is the most important part, honestly. If you have a bad tank, you're going to wipe incessantly.

As for Story Mode, of course it's going to be super-easy. Remember, role-agnostic mode? It's for people to see the story. I don't have a problem with it being a cakewalk. I'd actually prefer Hard Mode to be a bit harder still, but given the stories I've heard from other people in-guild wiping repeatedly even with foreknowledge of the mechanics, it's probably in a pretty good place right now.

Here's hoping we get a few solid months before Bioware nerfs these instances.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

RattyRattail's Avatar


RattyRattail
08.07.2013 , 01:09 PM | #12
There were mechanics in these flashpoints?
Makoan Legacy (Jedi Covenant)
Javán - 55 Sniper | Dhiya - 55 Shadow
Cáde - 55 Gunslinger | Nermall - 55 Assassin

Ottoattack's Avatar


Ottoattack
08.07.2013 , 01:17 PM | #13
I ran both HM FPs yesterday. I am a healer fully auged mostly in 72s with 1,100 to bonus healing. The fights are substantially harder than the other FPs and defiantly not balanced around level 62 gear (148 quality). I would not say it required super healing, but it does require substantially more effort than the other HM 55 FPs. Heck, I used adrenaline while fighting the second boss in meltdown and I never use adrenaline except in anything but HM Ops.

Maelael's Avatar


Maelael
08.07.2013 , 01:29 PM | #14
So we ran both, HMs, last night without looking at any guides.

Simply put, you need a tank who knows how to play. Running these with random tanks with better gear than our first tank were disasters. The first guardian had 66 crafted and did better than two guys in 69/72 optimized tank gear. Labs is easy, but Core you have to have a tank who does not suck at positioning bosses. Our DDs were running 66-69 gear.

Possible helpful hints if you're having problems:

Eradicator: Charged plating has a cast time, just watch for it. Use trans/predation. Sorc/Sage pull also helps for the person pulled in. Simple fight, DPS, move (and kill adds), go back in.

Zokar: Every single one of his reticule attacks are avoidable. If you're getting hit by them, you're not paying attention. Our second try at this guy we avoided every single reticule attack but the tank just taking the shotgun blast.

Ramsus: We didn't figure out the tanks thing until the third time through (we didnt look at guides). Without doing so it's a tank and spank, just keep moving and putting down the adds. 100% possible without doing the matching kolto tanks thing.

Duneclaw: Spread out with the sandstorm, have the tank pull it to the green generator thing. Use Trans/Predation to make it easier.

Vrblther: This is the true test of a tank not being an idiot. Pick a side (use right, as left seems to make the boss reset) and stick to it - be careful not to LOS your healer. Pay attention to the spore timing. Don't move the boss till the spores wear off, pre moving the boss to the next spore actually lowers DPS. Tank and spank. Again, party speed increase here helps.

Vigilant: Put the damage reticules at the wall when they spawn. Past that this is the easiest fight of all of the FPs. The spin attack was almost laughable damage wise.

Edit: /signed NIM versions of these FPs.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge. There is no fear; there is power.
I am the heart of the Force. I am the revealing fire of light. I am the mystery of darkness.
In balance with chaos and harmony, Immortal in the Force.

justgladtobeme's Avatar


justgladtobeme
08.07.2013 , 01:31 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by RakeshZeal View Post
/Sign'd

Please Introduce Nightmare Versions of these for 4 mans that want a challange.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. I was making up my own mechanics to what I thought they would be, only to be highly disappointed. This HM was a joke. I facerolled the entire time.

Krewel's Avatar


Krewel
08.07.2013 , 01:36 PM | #16
They are certainly easier than the good old Lost Island and the four rehashed ones introduced in 2.0. Please give us a challenging FP after 1+ year, this faceroll only teaches people how to be bad and get 69 epics ._.
Former passionate SWTOR player, now passionately waiting for WoD.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
08.07.2013 , 01:39 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Krewel View Post
They are certainly easier than the good old Lost Island and the four rehashed ones introduced in 2.0. Please give us a challenging FP after 1+ year, this faceroll only teaches people how to be bad and get 69 epics ._.
I have to disagree with this. The four rehashed HMs introduced in 2.0 are quite a bit easier than the new HMs, particularly in terms of tanking. Old-school LI HM was definitely a lot harder though.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

Falver's Avatar


Falver
08.07.2013 , 01:55 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
I have to disagree with this. The four rehashed HMs introduced in 2.0 are quite a bit easier than the new HMs, particularly in terms of tanking. Old-school LI HM was definitely a lot harder though.
The same way that flies aren't much bigger than ants from a person's perspective, the 2.0 HMs are essentially the same difficulty as the new ones. Easy.
The Harbinger
Claimed - Thirteenth - Falver
<Phobos> is recruiting to fill in multiple raid groups. Apply at http://fearphobos.com/

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
08.07.2013 , 02:16 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Falver View Post
The same way that flies aren't much bigger than ants from a person's perspective, the 2.0 HMs are essentially the same difficulty as the new ones. Easy.
*shrug* While I'm sure you picture yourself as the "person" in that metaphor, not all of us like to come across as quite so egotistical. I certainly don't think that the new HMs are all that difficult for a competent group, but let's not stand around and mock people who wipe on them just because they got a bad tank or their healer was distracted. We all start somewhere. A fine example of this is a group yesterday that included two of my guildies and wiped for about an hour on each. The tank and one of the DPS have both cleared Nightmare bosses, but the tank is currently on painkillers and the healer in the group (a non-guildy) was absolutely terrible.

Are the flashpoints challenging for a group of people who would otherwise be clearing Nightmare ops? No, not even close. Are they challenging for a group of people gearing up and learning the ropes? Absolutely.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

Falver's Avatar


Falver
08.07.2013 , 02:27 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
*shrug* While I'm sure you picture yourself as the "person" in that metaphor, not all of us like to come across as quite so egotistical. I certainly don't think that the new HMs are all that difficult for a competent group, but let's not stand around and mock people who wipe on them just because they got a bad tank or their healer was distracted. We all start somewhere. A fine example of this is a group yesterday that included two of my guildies and wiped for about an hour on each. The tank and one of the DPS have both cleared Nightmare bosses, but the tank is currently on painkillers and the healer in the group (a non-guildy) was absolutely terrible.

Are the flashpoints challenging for a group of people who would otherwise be clearing Nightmare ops? No, not even close. Are they challenging for a group of people gearing up and learning the ropes? Absolutely.
While I was not mocking them, I was making a statement from a different point of reference. Difficult and easy are a matter of perspective and relative difficulty. My guild and I miss the days of LI giving a fair amount of challenge and entered the HMs with some hopes of it being difficulty (with posts like this being the reason why I got my hopes up) and ending up thoroughly disappointed.
I think you made the most important statement there with the terrible healer. Having a deal-breaking player in the mix doesn't make the Flashpoint itself overtuned or too difficult, it just made that particular run horrendous. Should we consider this flashpoint overtuned because players are getting stomped?
The Harbinger
Claimed - Thirteenth - Falver
<Phobos> is recruiting to fill in multiple raid groups. Apply at http://fearphobos.com/