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Is it backwards?


Tragamite's Avatar


Tragamite
08.03.2013 , 12:43 PM | #1
I was just thinking today about how you obtain PvP gear, and I thought "man top tier is ~8x the price of bottom."

Ranked WZ Comms are 3x the price of WZ Comms and going with the most expensive piece, the MH is 1550 WZc and 3475 RWZc + MH. I mean I am all for the top tier costing more then bottom tier but seirously doesn't the numbers seem backwards?

If the MH cost 3475 WZc and 1550 RWZc +MH that is still almost 3x the cost. My opinion is that they have stacked these comms and prices backwards.

If Max WZc were at 4500 and RWZc at 2750 You would still be limited to 2 items at having max comms when you hit 55.
Whocsllessur Jugg Tank 55, Etim'a'grt Sorc DPS 55, Ruspe-Rurob PT Tank 55, Tolan'dass Snipe DPS 55, Skltor Sin Tank 55 Pesch-rushi Guard Tank 55, Tragamite Scoundrel Heals 55, Slughter Van DPS 55, Sh-R Sage DPS 55

Tragamite's Avatar


Tragamite
08.04.2013 , 11:47 AM | #2
Anyone have comments about this?
Whocsllessur Jugg Tank 55, Etim'a'grt Sorc DPS 55, Ruspe-Rurob PT Tank 55, Tolan'dass Snipe DPS 55, Skltor Sin Tank 55 Pesch-rushi Guard Tank 55, Tragamite Scoundrel Heals 55, Slughter Van DPS 55, Sh-R Sage DPS 55

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
08.04.2013 , 11:55 AM | #3
partisan costs less.

you have 44 levels to stockpile reg comms. you'd have full everything if you didn't have a low cap (in combo with first reason).

BW wants ppl to grind at 55...but then they don't cuz of bolster. but then they do cuz of crap itemization. but then they don't because matrix > 2nd relic. but then they do cuz conqueror individual mods are bis and INSANELY overpriced. etc. etc.
meh
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

Tragamite's Avatar


Tragamite
08.04.2013 , 11:10 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
partisan costs less.

you have 44 levels to stockpile reg comms. you'd have full everything if you didn't have a low cap (in combo with first reason).

BW wants ppl to grind at 55...but then they don't cuz of bolster. but then they do cuz of crap itemization. but then they don't because matrix > 2nd relic. but then they do cuz conqueror individual mods are bis and INSANELY overpriced. etc. etc.
Not if the prices were reversed. But the fact that you have to turn in your partisan for the upgrade I just think it makes more sense if these were reveresed.
Whocsllessur Jugg Tank 55, Etim'a'grt Sorc DPS 55, Ruspe-Rurob PT Tank 55, Tolan'dass Snipe DPS 55, Skltor Sin Tank 55 Pesch-rushi Guard Tank 55, Tragamite Scoundrel Heals 55, Slughter Van DPS 55, Sh-R Sage DPS 55

DharmaPolice's Avatar


DharmaPolice
08.04.2013 , 11:34 PM | #5
The prices are deliberate - the entry level PVP gear is supposed to be easy to get. The upper tier is supposed to be hard (or at least take a long time) to get. The pricing as it stands at the moment does make getting min-maxed Conqueror a chore, but that's exactly the point. Full Partisan on the other hand you can obtain in about a week of playing, even if you don't save before you reach 55. Bioware does not want most PVPers to reach the end of the gear treadmill too quickly (which is also in my opinion why the default stats are so bad on some pieces).

The main things that are messed up about pricing at the moment are:

- the cost of individual mods or enhancements in the ranked tier. (BW have said this is also by design, although it still doesn't make much sense).

- the relative expensiveness of Main Hand weapons (at either tier) really does not seem right now that Bolster obliterates much of the difference between weapons. You obtain roughly the same upgrade (in terms of stats) by upgrading your gloves or boots but the Main Hand is roughly 1.7 times more costly (at both levels). Because pre 2.0 (and in the rest of the game even now) the Main Hand was the most important upgrade (for dps anyway) some players are still going for that as their first Partisan/Conqueror pieces when in fact they'd get a better rate of return on other items.
Derimeth / Splendora / Rosaluxemburg - The Red Eclipse

Tragamite's Avatar


Tragamite
08.06.2013 , 11:07 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by DharmaPolice View Post
The prices are deliberate - the entry level PVP gear is supposed to be easy to get. The upper tier is supposed to be hard (or at least take a long time) to get. The pricing as it stands at the moment does make getting min-maxed Conqueror a chore, but that's exactly the point. Full Partisan on the other hand you can obtain in about a week of playing, even if you don't save before you reach 55. Bioware does not want most PVPers to reach the end of the gear treadmill too quickly (which is also in my opinion why the default stats are so bad on some pieces).

The main things that are messed up about pricing at the moment are:

- the cost of individual mods or enhancements in the ranked tier. (BW have said this is also by design, although it still doesn't make much sense).

- the relative expensiveness of Main Hand weapons (at either tier) really does not seem right now that Bolster obliterates much of the difference between weapons. You obtain roughly the same upgrade (in terms of stats) by upgrading your gloves or boots but the Main Hand is roughly 1.7 times more costly (at both levels). Because pre 2.0 (and in the rest of the game even now) the Main Hand was the most important upgrade (for dps anyway) some players are still going for that as their first Partisan/Conqueror pieces when in fact they'd get a better rate of return on other items.
Mods and Enhancements costing nearly the same as the item it goes into is straight up stupid! Planetary Vendors sell Items for 1 (one) Uno, Eins etc... more than it costs to upgrade said item with just the mods. Armoring 7+ Mod 2+ Enhancement 2= 11 Planetary Comms, Chest piece w/mods = 12 Planetary Comms.

So if I buy an Armor piece for say 850 WZ Comms why 400 for a mod? 2 =/= 1/2 of 12 Based on the formula from the planetary comms a mod and enhancement from the WZ vendor should cost ~142 WZ Comms. The Conqueror grade Mods and Enhancements should not cost ANY WZ comms at all with the current system.

Personally though gear progression in PvP should go
Level 10 @ 250 WZ Comms ea. piece (Skimisher)
Level 20 @ 500 WZ Comms ea. (Duelist)
Level 30 @ 750 WZ Comms ea. (Gladiator)
Level 40 @ 1000 WZ Comms ea. (Centurion)
Level 50 @ 1500 WZ Comms ea. (Champion)
Level 50T1 @ 2000 WZ Comms ea. (Battlemaster)
Level 55T2 @ 500 WZ 500 RWZ Comms +T1 ea. (War Hero)
Level 55T3 @ 1000 RWZ Comms +T2 ea. (Conqueror)
Then you could add Ranked Tiers of Gear

Each item piece (Armoring, Mods and Enhancements seperately) should all have 50 Expertise each except ear which has 100. Max Expertise for any level of gear is 3000. The only difference between the sets are the base stats. Make PvE gear have 75% of the max expertise so ~ 2250. PvP gear would have 75% the base stats of equivilant PvE gear. 144 main = 108, 146 End = 110, 69 pow = 52, 56 surge = 42, etc on PvP gear.

In this way it makes PvP>PvE for PvP but PvE gear viable in PvP. Additionally PvP gear is viable in PvE.
Whocsllessur Jugg Tank 55, Etim'a'grt Sorc DPS 55, Ruspe-Rurob PT Tank 55, Tolan'dass Snipe DPS 55, Skltor Sin Tank 55 Pesch-rushi Guard Tank 55, Tragamite Scoundrel Heals 55, Slughter Van DPS 55, Sh-R Sage DPS 55

Zunayson's Avatar


Zunayson
08.07.2013 , 07:26 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Tragamite View Post
Mods and Enhancements costing nearly the same as the item it goes into is straight up stupid! Planetary Vendors sell Items for 1 (one) Uno, Eins etc... more than it costs to upgrade said item with just the mods. Armoring 7+ Mod 2+ Enhancement 2= 11 Planetary Comms, Chest piece w/mods = 12 Planetary Comms.

So if I buy an Armor piece for say 850 WZ Comms why 400 for a mod? 2 =/= 1/2 of 12 Based on the formula from the planetary comms a mod and enhancement from the WZ vendor should cost ~142 WZ Comms. The Conqueror grade Mods and Enhancements should not cost ANY WZ comms at all with the current system.

Personally though gear progression in PvP should go
Level 10 @ 250 WZ Comms ea. piece (Skimisher)
Level 20 @ 500 WZ Comms ea. (Duelist)
Level 30 @ 750 WZ Comms ea. (Gladiator)
Level 40 @ 1000 WZ Comms ea. (Centurion)
Level 50 @ 1500 WZ Comms ea. (Champion)
Level 50T1 @ 2000 WZ Comms ea. (Battlemaster)
Level 55T2 @ 500 WZ 500 RWZ Comms +T1 ea. (War Hero)
Level 55T3 @ 1000 RWZ Comms +T2 ea. (Conqueror)
Then you could add Ranked Tiers of Gear

Each item piece (Armoring, Mods and Enhancements seperately) should all have 50 Expertise each except ear which has 100. Max Expertise for any level of gear is 3000. The only difference between the sets are the base stats. Make PvE gear have 75% of the max expertise so ~ 2250. PvP gear would have 75% the base stats of equivilant PvE gear. 144 main = 108, 146 End = 110, 69 pow = 52, 56 surge = 42, etc on PvP gear.

In this way it makes PvP>PvE for PvP but PvE gear viable in PvP. Additionally PvP gear is viable in PvE.
At first I didn't agree with the prices. I saw how expensive BM was and thought that WH would be moreso. At new level cap we had EWH and Elite Warlard gear?

I actually agree with the entirety of your post, but WH should not require BM :P
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foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
08.07.2013 , 07:54 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Tragamite View Post
Not if the prices were reversed. But the fact that you have to turn in your partisan for the upgrade I just think it makes more sense if these were reveresed.
??? the reason the reg cap is low is because it costs less reg comms to get partisan than it does rated comms for the same slot conqueror. in that respect, the costs ARE the same...or at least make sense. you are overthinking it

edit: do not think about conqueror in terms of number of reg comms. they're rated gear sold by rated vendor. only special stuff involves reg comms whatsoever.
meh
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

Capt_Beers's Avatar


Capt_Beers
08.07.2013 , 08:06 AM | #9
You are thinking about this wrong. The ranked gear wasn't designed to acquired by trading in comms. The reason we were first able to trade in comms was WH gear got released but RWZ's were delayed.

They couldn't release the gear without a way to get it so they allowed us to trade in comms. The ranked gear was designed to be acquired by doing ranked PvP. In my opinion this was one of the reasons that led to ranked not being as successful. Some people had the time to grind out the comms before ranked and some didn't. Now instead of ranked being the way to earn ranked gear you had to have it already to compete. They shouldn't have allowed us to get the gear before the content was released but they knew the messed up and had to throw the PvP community something.

So the prices are fine. It's just the way we are earning them that is messed up.
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Tragamite's Avatar


Tragamite
08.07.2013 , 10:11 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
??? the reason the reg cap is low is because it costs less reg comms to get partisan than it does rated comms for the same slot conqueror. in that respect, the costs ARE the same...or at least make sense. you are overthinking it

edit: do not think about conqueror in terms of number of reg comms. they're rated gear sold by rated vendor. only special stuff involves reg comms whatsoever.
I understand that the cap is set based on the comms required to buy an item. Look at it alternatively though. 1st from 10-39 there is little you can do with comms. You can buy gear without expertise and is bolstered differently than other PvE gear of same level for some reason. You can buy weapons that cost the same at level 14 as at 46? Again bolstering these items breaks due to the fact they have a tiny amount of expertise. So PvPers buy medpacs and stims that realistically are too expensive and have no variety.

At VALOR 40 not level you can trade in your WZ Comms for RWZ Comms allowing you to save up for when you reach 55. This is where the casual PvPer has the issue. You casually play PvP while you level maybe completing the daily and weekly then move back to PvE to level. So at level 55 you find you are only valor rank 23 and are well behind the power curb.

With switching the comms and pricing and adding low level PvP gear and capping expertise it will be easier to calculate in Bolster for the casual player and not ruin PvP for PvPers.

Regardless of whatever you see PvP needs an overhaul and be revamped.
Whocsllessur Jugg Tank 55, Etim'a'grt Sorc DPS 55, Ruspe-Rurob PT Tank 55, Tolan'dass Snipe DPS 55, Skltor Sin Tank 55 Pesch-rushi Guard Tank 55, Tragamite Scoundrel Heals 55, Slughter Van DPS 55, Sh-R Sage DPS 55