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8/2 Sentinel/Marauder Questions

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
8/2 Sentinel/Marauder Questions
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
08.02.2013 , 10:42 AM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by g_mK View Post
I like the way the questions are phrased, one suggestion I still make if for HoJ/Slaughter to reduce the CD of gore/PS this would give combat/carnage the fluidity it had pre 2.0
It finishes the cooldown. You want it to apply a buff that reduces the static cooldown of the next PS/Gore (similar to Merciless/Annihilate)? It's a cool idea, but it would increase DPS by a *lot* while simultaneously making focus/rage management nearly impossible (since you would have a lot less time to build focus between PS windows).
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g_mK's Avatar


g_mK
08.02.2013 , 01:22 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
It finishes the cooldown. You want it to apply a buff that reduces the static cooldown of the next PS/Gore (similar to Merciless/Annihilate)? It's a cool idea, but it would increase DPS by a *lot* while simultaneously making focus/rage management nearly impossible (since you would have a lot less time to build focus between PS windows).
Yes an static reduction of the CD of the PS/gore window. It may not necessarily increase dps but I would allow players to be more consistent with their dps. As it currently stands there are 2 PS/gore window every ICD of the Slaughter/HoJ proc that is a 9 second window of PS/Gore every 20 sec if the CD of PS where 9s instead of 12s then it would achieve the same effect. That way you would have phases, a 4.5 second window of focus/rage building and 4.5 sec window of focus/rage spending. Also a 9 sec CD would allow to time it with BS/FS.
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Ottoattack's Avatar


Ottoattack
08.02.2013 , 02:24 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Ardarell_Solo View Post
I think the strengths and weaknesses adressed here are simply meant to be like that and I find them to be quite well balanced: With Focus you have one specc that shines brightly in PvP and the AoE department, if it were competitive in PvE as well (where you need stong single target DPS), that specc would be OP.

Combat does highest DPS in PVE plus enormous initial burst both in PvE and PvP. If DPS peaks were not dependent on RNG at all and you could deliberately control burst DPS it would be totally OP.

Watchman is quite a bit easier to play than Combat, fair enough that you can't pull the highest DPS with it. Dots are a very convenient play style as your target takes continuous damage even if you don't do anything, so you have to make it a littler harder to keep those Dots running.

I do agree Gunslingers are probably a little too strong since 2.0 but I'd rather give them a slight nerf than push Sent speccs...
Couple of things. Each tree need to be balanced for ALL environments. Also, PvE wise there are no evidence supporting that combat does better than watchmen. Most parses are split among them and each has its strong and weak points PvE wise. Finally, tree complexity is not correlated with damage output, plus none of the trees is complex for all the classes.

Emperor-Norton's Avatar


Emperor-Norton
08.02.2013 , 06:19 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by Ottoattack View Post
Couple of things. Each tree need to be balanced for ALL environments. Also, PvE wise there are no evidence supporting that combat does better than watchmen. Most parses are split among them and each has its strong and weak points PvE wise. Finally, tree complexity is not correlated with damage output, plus none of the trees is complex for all the classes.
The problem is that there are many fights (Titan 6, Kephess, Dread Guard, Operator IX, etc. etc) where Combat is significantly better than Watchman, but few or none where Watchman is significantly better than Combat. So there really is no big benefit being Watchman compared to Combat, but there is for being Combat compared to Watchman. Also, I personally parse at between 3.5-4k in Combat on NiM Kephess, compared to 3200-3500 in Watchman. So yeah, there is some evidence.
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Memo-'s Avatar


Memo-
08.02.2013 , 06:59 PM | #75
Just a few points I've been wondering about myself:

One of the many failings of Watchman in PvP are the dots. While strong, they are easily cleansable. What if their typing was changed to Force instead of Physical? As it is, every healer spec can cleanse Physical effects, but only Sorcs/Sages can cleanse Force effects. Scoundrels/Ops could still remove it with Dodge, but Sorcs would remain the only healer class that could cleanse them from other party members. As such this wouldn't be a big enough alteration for it to begin affecting team structures, but if the dots were additionally considerably stronger (with other attacks weakened?) the threat of the other team having Watchmen would necessitate at least the other of your healers to be a Sage.

In battles where there is a lot of movement (boss moving fast) there are times when a Combat sent is out of melee range, Force Leap is on CD and PS is off CD and free to use, but you cannot reach the boss to initiate it. The fact that PS is a melee attack is what confused me the most when I began to move from Watchman to Combat. Its functionality within the spec is pretty much the same as that of Overload Saber, yet OS is an activated buff. PS as an attack is negligible, so it could be reworked to act solely as a buff as well. An added bonus would be the ability of using TST and BS within a PS window outside melee range while pursuing the boss. The problem is, the ability should probably be renamed as it wouldn't be a Slash anymore. :P
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TradeLA's Avatar


TradeLA
08.03.2013 , 09:23 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Things look pretty close to me. Sentinels/Marauders can do about 3.15k on the high end, which is right in line with what Gunslingers/Snipers can do (at least within a few percentage points, given that Gunslingers/Snipers can inflate their numbers with an end-parse burnout). I don't count Sabo/Engineering as a real spec since it requires some *very* specific circumstances to achieve its maximum (obscenely high) DPS.
While the best marauder/sentinel dummy parse might be equivalent to the best sniper/gunslinger parse, the statistics at Torparse--where snipers are consistently the top damage dealers, and sentinels sometimes not even in the top 50 for HM/NM--reveal that in practice, marauders are significantly far behind snipers.

It's a combination of two things.

--First, as I think you yourself have observed KNB, that the variations do to the inconsistency of procs mean that for every amazing marauder/sentinel parse, there are a lot of ok ones and a terrible one. To my knowledge, snipers are not subject to as high variability. To do an overall comparison, you can't compare the top scores, you have to compare the average or mean.

--Second, the mechanics of most of the bosses--particularly in TFB--make the movement required for melee to be a big disadvantage.

idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
08.03.2013 , 11:39 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by TradeLA View Post
--Second, the mechanics of most of the bosses--particularly in TFB--make the movement required for melee to be a big disadvantage.
I love this. I say that I click instead of use hotkeys, and people get on my case. Then turn around and say that they can't attack while moving. Not implying you, TradeLA, just saying in general. Why do you think I click? I parse the same on a stationary dummy, but moving targets aren't a disadvantage.

So no, I would not necessarily say that moving targets are a disadvantage. Not only is that a skill-based issue rather than a class-based one, there is also no way to 'fix' it, other than changing every Melee class in the game into a Ranged one (which makes no sense at all).

Again, none of this directed at you TradeLA, just throwing out the general comment since you touched on it.
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FrankyFin's Avatar


FrankyFin
08.04.2013 , 01:26 AM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by keeroo View Post
One comment from my side playing Sentinel main in PVP on Combat for the last 3 months:
Besides the random nature of Opportune Attack and Hand of Justice, it is extremely annoying that I have to watch my buff bar carefully to register if any of these two buffs are available. I already increased my buff bar on 1.2 in the interface editor to be able to exactly track the proc moments. But the icons in the character buff bar are also not ordered. So it is sometimes really hard to find these buffs in the forrest of icons.
the buffbar is my dearest enemy as well. i only have one good eye so keeping track of as much as possible in pvp is a challenge, but i feel especially screwed with specs where i would have to stare at my buffbar in order to play it good.

the buffbar is uncomfortable to look at due to the classbuffs/stim/stance etc. now if there was at least a set place for the important ability buffs to pop up it would make it easier, but as it is i need "to hunt" for the procs/buffs. its too exhausting for me, so when i play carnage marauder i dont even care for the buffs anymore. force scream crit or not, its fine ... i rather look at my enemys buffbar instead of my own to make sure he doesnt have some insane def cooldown popped before i go off, but yeah personally i cannot do that much multi-tasking with my impaired vision.

procs that reset skills like unload for the arsenal mercenry .. or 20 seconds buffs like in the rage spec are fine. close to no own-buffwar-watching required. i also like buffs with numbers in them ... easy to spot. for all the specs though that require one to react very fast to certain buffs/procs (in order to play the class or rather the specs rotation to potential) some imporvement to the buffbar would be greatly appreciated.

TLDR: do want better buffbar!^^
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TradeLA's Avatar


TradeLA
08.04.2013 , 12:15 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
I love this. I say that I click instead of use hotkeys, and people get on my case. Then turn around and say that they can't attack while moving. Not implying you, TradeLA, just saying in general. Why do you think I click? I parse the same on a stationary dummy, but moving targets aren't a disadvantage.
no offense, but click vs. hotkeys has nothing to do with it--if you have a trick to parse the same while chasing Ciphas around the field in TFB NM, or not lose dps you'd get if you were hitting a dummy while running between cores in Operator IX HM, while a sniper barely has to move at all--please share with the community. The fact that there are exactly two marauder/sentinels (#28 and #40) on the TFB HM/NM Dread Guard leaderboard shows the deficit at it's worst. Yet there are no bosses where ranged/snipers are at a deficit. They dominate nearly every boss.


Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
there is also no way to 'fix' it, other than changing every Melee class in the game into a Ranged one (which makes no sense at all).
Sure there is. Marauder/sentinel's damage should be a fraction higher against a dummy or stationary boss, and lower against targets we have to chase or run between. What makes no sense at all is making melee equal to ranged against completely stationary single targets, and lower against everything else.

oofalong's Avatar


oofalong
08.05.2013 , 08:00 AM | #80
I think the biggest challenge with the movement is the ability's animations. For instance, Cauterize/Rupture and Force Leap/Charge seem too lengthy and require you to commit to a specific position for a moment or two while the boss is running away.
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Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
You are correct Oofalong.