Why do I say this/ Because, their entire race was pushed to the brink of extinction due to the overly righteous Jedi Order. I love the Jedi, lets not confuse this. But looking at this time period .. and even up till Luke took over with the New Jedi Order, Jedi were quick to judge and quick to act. They basically did a Nazi Holocaust on the Sith Race. Can you blame them for then joining the Empire? What else were they to do? At that point the SIth had found an ally that had a common enemy. All Sith are not evil. To say they were is asinine and blind to obvious facts pointed out through Canon.

Another point .. to say the "Dark Side," of the force was no match to the "Light Side," is just a righteous holier then thou look at the force. How many Sith destroyed well known and powerful Jedi through out the Star Wars history? A Sith can tap into the lightside just as much as a Jedi can tap into the Dark Side. But that is just me and these are my own opinions. So Troll up and rage if needed.

Why do I say this/ Because, their entire race was pushed to the brink of extinction due to the overly righteous Jedi Order. I love the Jedi, lets not confuse this. But looking at this time period .. and even up till Luke took over with the New Jedi Order, Jedi were quick to judge and quick to act. They basically did a Nazi Holocaust on the Sith Race. Can you blame them for then joining the Empire? What else were they to do? At that point the SIth had found an ally that had a common enemy. All Sith are not evil. To say they were is asinine and blind to obvious facts pointed out through Canon.

 

Another point .. to say the "Dark Side," of the force was no match to the "Light Side," is just a righteous holier then thou look at the force. How many Sith destroyed well known and powerful Jedi through out the Star Wars history? A Sith can tap into the lightside just as much as a Jedi can tap into the Dark Side. But that is just me and these are my own opinions. So Troll up and rage if needed.

Jedi have good intentions, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Though the sith. Though the geneocide was uncalled for, sith have done things like sanctioned the destruction of planets[jedi knight story], have multiple homicidal maniacs running the show, and are always plotting somebody's death.

Much as genocide was stupid for the jedi, when you have a race bent on conquest and destruction, what is the alternative? You can exile them, they just come back.

Not all Sith are evil, but remember that the Dark Side is evil and that those who are immersed in it do evil things.

I can not nor do I agree with this.

Um, the Sith joined the Empire, I thought the Sith created the Empire.

And while the initial evil might have been commited by the Jedi (ok, definately was commited), the Sith have been committing evils of their own ever since. The fact that they were wronged first does not excuse their own wrongs, and thus becomes largely academic.

I can not nor do I agree with this.

Of course you don't

That said, the Sith species is pretty much evil. Let me repeat this...they're evil! But let's be fair...there's sure to be a kind hearted Sith Pureblood, we call them, Player Characters. Other Sith Purebloods call them, dead.

Yes OP, these are just your opinions, based on re-written history it seems.

Dark Jedi were hunted by the Jedi. Dark Jedi found Korriban, inhabited by Sith Purebloods. Centuries of inter-race relations with Dark Jedi diluted the Sith Purebloods, not this re-written historical holocaust nonsense.

Why not just say you enjoy playing the bad-guy, dressed in black, with lightning bolts, and generally better storylines, instead of making up BS to justify your sociapathic needs.

Sith, an name adopted by the Dark Jedi, are not misunderstood. Newsflash! The Sith did not join the Empire.

Not all Sith are evil, but remember that the Dark Side is evil and that those who are immersed in it do evil things.

I do not agree with this either. The Dark Side is a philosophy, same as the Light Side. There tends to be more of a Machiavellian outlook on life (put simply: more "ends justify the means") when it comes to the Dark Side's ideals. Being more extremely detached from others easily leads to a more "evil" seeming approach to life; Sith (and other Dark Side users) simply get the added benefit of generally being the most self-absorbed *****s you've ever met. But if you ask me, the Dark Side itself is nothing more than an idea (same as the Light Side) neither inherently good or evil.

In the context of this game, look at the Voss. It's said numerous times (especially when playing through as a Pub) that they (the Voss) have their history rooted in the Dark Side and that many relics or ideas dance the line with the Dark Side. Are the Voss evil? No. Arrogant and detached, yes, but not evil.

The Sith species was shaped by the Dark Side of the Force and so were the teachings of the Sith, it is Darwinism, the Rule of Two is extremist Darwinism.

The Sith are not misunderstood they make their intentions very clear, the dominance of one over all others.

Jedi Fanboys.

Evil is an illusion, there is only victory.

Jedi Fanboys.

 

Evil is an illusion, there is only victory.

This...is simply epic. I am actually tempted to sig that if that is ok man?

The point is that both dark and light are ideologies, or religions even. Both have their flaws. Following only one side without compromise will lead you and your society to ruin as seen countless times throughout the Star Wars timeline, whether it's the Brotherhood of Darkness, the prequel era Jedi Order, or the Banite Order with the Rule of Two, the list goes on and on.

For Sith, the ends justify the means.

For Jedi, the means justify the end.

It's easy to see why both are doomed to fail.

The successes have incorporated elements of both. Palpatine exercised restraint and control rather than unbridled passion to reach his position of power. Luke courted the Dark Side to defeat Vader. The Chosen One had to become a Jedi, a dark Jedi, and then a Sith before he could reach redemption.

Luke courted the darkside to defaet Vader???

More nonsense posted to misrepresent what actually happened... Vader threatened Liea, Luke got upset and went offensive. There was no courting the darkside, as if he contemplated or planned what he was doing.

The Jedi and Sith are not oppisites... Sith want to control power for themselves... Jedi preserve the Republic... Sith don't justify anything, means or ends. Posting poetic nonsense doesn't make the Sith any less sociapathic.

I keep reading about this ying and yang where dark or light can't exist without the other... more poetic nonsense... Sith and Jedi can quite easily live without the other, function without the other.

Sith could conquer the universe, and then conquer each other... Jedi could just revert back to being a police force, teachers, scholars whatever.

And yes, the great Darth Sidious... good story, one problem. Sidious had no endgame. He destroyed the Jedi order, changed the Republic into the Empire, and then what? For all of his darkside power, he could have just been a shrewd politician and done the same thing. He built a DeathStar to do what with... destroy his own empire? The DeathStar never made any sense to me, other than a plot object for the Rebels.

Luke courted the darkside to defaet Vader???

More nonsense posted to misrepresent what actually happened... Vader threatened Liea, Luke got upset and went offensive. There was no courting the darkside, as if he contemplated or planned what he was doing.

 

The Jedi and Sith are not oppisites... Sith want to control power for themselves... Jedi preserve the Republic... Sith don't justify anything, means or ends. Posting poetic nonsense doesn't make the Sith any less sociapathic.

 

I keep reading about this ying and yang where dark or light can't exist without the other... more poetic nonsense... Sith and Jedi can quite easily live without the other, function without the other.

Sith could conquer the universe, and then conquer each other... Jedi could just revert back to being a police force, teachers, scholars whatever.

 

And yes, the great Darth Sidious... good story, one problem. Sidious had no endgame. He destroyed the Jedi order, changed the Republic into the Empire, and then what? For all of his darkside power, he could have just been a shrewd politician and done the same thing. He built a DeathStar to do what with... destroy his own empire? The DeathStar never made any sense to me, other than a plot object for the Rebels.

*****

Luke courted the darkside to defaet Vader???

More nonsense posted to misrepresent what actually happened... Vader threatened Liea, Luke got upset and went offensive. There was no courting the darkside, as if he contemplated or planned what he was doing.

Failing to control your emotions is the path to the dark side. Fear of losing those you are attached to (Leia), or even forming attachments in the first place, is the path to the dark side. It's stated pretty clearly in SW lore. The great Jedi masters like Yoda did not simply "get upset and go offensive".

The Sith species was shaped by the Dark Side of the Force and so were the teachings of the Sith, it is Darwinism, the Rule of Two is extremist Darwinism.

Well Capitalism is Darwinism, and I am sure Republic runs it on a massive scale.

Luke courted the darkside to defaet Vader???

More nonsense posted to misrepresent what actually happened... Vader threatened Liea, Luke got upset and went offensive. There was no courting the darkside, as if he contemplated or planned what he was doing.

It isnt nonsense, as the movie implies he uses it and the ROTJ Novel states he used the dark side to beat Vader.

Well Capitalism is Darwinism, and I am sure Republic runs it on a massive scale.

Darwinism in economics and Darwinism as a way of life and (as far as the Sith go) death, are two entirely different things.

well I see more of having it both ways nonsense...

for Jedi, failing to control emotions is the path to the darkside...

for Sith, well do they fail to control emotions, or embrace the emotions

so, for Luke, getting upset was on the path...

how long is this path?

lets review... Anakin killed all the sand people... he married... concieved children... killed Dooku... sliced Mace's hand off... became a Sith Apprentice... killed the Jedi temple... choked his wife... fought his friend ... murdered and maimed for 20 years... this is a "long" path, to which at the end he was still lightside.

so I guess it's a good thing Luke calmed down, otherwise his fall to the darkside would have been complete.

nevermind... some novel written after the movie stated he used the darkside.

well I see more of having it both ways nonsense...

for Jedi, failing to control emotions is the path to the darkside...

for Sith, well do they fail to control emotions, or embrace the emotions

 

so, for Luke, getting upset was on the path...

how long is this path?

 

lets review... Anakin killed all the sand people... he married... concieved children... killed Dooku... sliced Mace's hand off... became a Sith Apprentice... killed the Jedi temple... choked his wife... fought his friend ... murdered and maimed for 20 years... this is a "long" path, to which at the end he was still lightside.

 

so I guess it's a good thing Luke calmed down, otherwise his fall to the darkside would have been complete.

 

nevermind... some novel written after the movie stated he used the darkside.

Dude, you so must be on the good stuff.

Basically what I'm understanding from your post is that you don't believe in the notion of redemption? That one can't start LS, truly fall to the DS, and have some pivotal moment that brings them back toward the LS? That because they are LS later in their life after being a servant of the DS, they can't have ever been truly DS? That they had to have been LS the entire time?

Are you also rejecting the possibility that Vader never fully recovered from the DS? And that by which we see him save Luke and later appear as a Force Ghost it must automatically mean he was fully LS at his death?

And from my understanding, Luke was less of the "traditional" Jedi and hovered more in the grey area. It's also presented in TOR a few times that to be one with the Force, you need to embrace both the Light and Dark... further proving the notion that one cannot exist without the other. The idea here being the philosophies can exist independently, but one must except the Force as a whole "entity", and not Light vs Dark.

Actually, when Anakin killed the first youngling he was instantly beyond redemption... yeah but ok, lets immerse in the Star Wars Galaxie far far away...

Writers keep screwing up... this path to the darkside, or lightside, seems herky jerky at best... and it doesn't seem to be a path at all...

IF Luke killing Vader, who very much needed killing, turns Luke to the darkside, and his journey to the darkside is complete, then how minutes later was Vader redeemed. One act, killing Vader, when Vader has committed repeatedly countless acts. What exactly is the darkside corrupting that can be instantly redeemed?

Thats my problem with this poetic nonsense of having it both ways, or all ways, or anything the writers want... the darkside corrupts or it doesn't... the movies, just like SWToR, what we do, our choices, have no actual effect on game mechanics. Luke could have murderized Vader, murderized Sidious, sat on the floor and meditated for 2 minutes and been fine. It's simple... don't push #1... push button #3... attack now.

Actually, when Anakin killed the first youngling he was instantly beyond redemption... yeah but ok, lets immerse in the Star Wars Galaxie far far away...

 

Writers keep screwing up... this path to the darkside, or lightside, seems herky jerky at best... and it doesn't seem to be a path at all...

 

IF Luke killing Vader, who very much needed killing, turns Luke to the darkside, and his journey to the darkside is complete, then how minutes later was Vader redeemed. One act, killing Vader, when Vader has committed repeatedly countless acts. What exactly is the darkside corrupting that can be instantly redeemed?

 

Thats my problem with this poetic nonsense of having it both ways, or all ways, or anything the writers want... the darkside corrupts or it doesn't... the movies, just like SWToR, what we do, our choices, have no actual effect on game mechanics. Luke could have murderized Vader, murderized Sidious, sat on the floor and meditated for 2 minutes and been fine. It's simple... don't push #1... push button #3... attack now.

It's all in how Luke kills Vader. The Emperor wasn't just trying to get Luke to kill Vader. He was trying to get Luke to kill Vader in anger.

Interesting in how all these posters say they love/enjoy Star Wars, then can't accept it has a very basic premise of Good (Jedi/Republic) versus Evil (Empire/Sith) and those who use the Force can be redeemed.

It's all in how Luke kills Vader. The Emperor wasn't just trying to get Luke to kill Vader. He was trying to get Luke to kill Vader in anger.

 

Interesting in how all these posters say they love/enjoy Star Wars, then can't accept it has a very basic premise of Good (Jedi/Republic) versus Evil (Empire/Sith) and those who use the Force can be redeemed.

I guess the guy who you are talking to has never really seriously watched the movie. Luke wasn't simply going on the offensive. He was pissed the hell off. You could see it the minute he screamed "NEVER!!"

And you could see it when he was wailing away on vader's saber when he knocked him down. That wasn't "ok I have to keep up the pressure to win." No it was "I'm gonna tear his freaking HEAD OFF WITH MY BARE HANDS!"

Which is what the emperor wanted till Luke finally calmed down and realized what was right and what was wrong.