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Dual-Spec: The Necessary (VERY Necessary) Evil


MajinUltima

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Loving the game, mad props to the whole SWTOR team, not here to discuss the few other technical issues like servers and such. What I am here to discuss is the grave necessity for a second Skill pane to be able to swap to.

 

*Keep in mind: I only mean that a Sorcerer can only make a second Sorcerer tree, the first can focus on Corruption and the second on Lightning, for example.

 

There's a few issues that inhibit player experience due to the absence of a second Skill spec to swap to...

 

- Healing: As noted above in the Sorcerer example (and my current main), investing talents especially at mid levels in Corruption severely inhibits your strength when questing around in PvE. As content becomes more complex and difficult, this creates a stronger division. Without Corruption talents, you are not a reliable healer for group content... and without Lightning/Madness talents, you have a considerably more challenging time when soloing with your companion.

 

- Tanking: Not sure how drastic the discrepancy may be here, but it does seem to be minor, so I'm only going to make note of this.

 

- PVP: There's a number of talents or even a Skill tree which may suit PVP play more than PVE play. At max level especially, when people begin running Operations and PVPing at max level more regularly, players are going to find discrepancies between which Skills they're going to want to use for each. A player may want to Heal/Tank for their friends in Operations, but want to be more damage oriented in PVP play... or a player may be great at dishing damage against bosses, but prefer to play a support role in PVP combat.

 

As I myself currently am maining a Sorcerer, it was very hard to quest before I did a Skill respec away from healing talents, but now I am inadequate as a healer in groups. This forces a very un-fun decision on my gameplay, where I must choose between my questing or my ability to support others. I am certain many other players (especially in healing-capable classes) are feeling a similar pressure.

Edited by MajinUltima
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I think nescessary is too strong of a word.

 

I also think it's a bit absurd that in a massively multiplayer game, a game specifically designed around you playing with other people, that anyone can truly say they *need* to be completely self-reliant.

 

Make friends. Have fun. And I hope the game weeds out the people who just absolutely refuse to make friends. There are all kinds of other games for those people. MMOs like this should do the exact opposite and encourage social bonding.

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I second this. Even if you want to play ONLY a tank or ONLY a healer... just look at the trees.. there are clearly pvp and pve talents. A pvp tank spec should not look the same as a pve tank spec. And anyone that has ever done serious end game content knows, you have to maximize your spec/stats/rotation etc to succeed.

 

I am big into pvp, but i also want to get through the pve endgame as well. I KNOW that if i want to be a viable tank or dps in endgame pve content i will have to spec specifically for that. I don't want to be gimped in pvp all week so that i can raid on saturday night or something.

 

If we can't get dual specs, at the very least make the respec cost cap at a reasonable cost. a 10,000-15,000 credit cap would make it such that respecing was still a decision that shouldnt be done multiple times a day/week, but a viable option

 

also, when leveling and learning the game, i would really like to try out each talent tree, different talents in each tree, etc. Bioware has done a great job with the trees, there arn't really cookie-cutter specs yet, and one of the most fun parts about a new MMO is experimenting and learning for yourself whats optimal and what you enjoy (rather than looking up the best spec like you can for any 6 month old MMO). Making the respec costs scale out of control completely hinders my ability to do this.

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I also think it's a bit absurd that in a massively multiplayer game, a game specifically designed around you playing with other people, that anyone can truly say they *need* to be completely self-reliant.

 

Because my friends are always going to be:

- The exact same level I am.

- Playing the exact same times of day I am.

- Have an interest in doing the same content I am.

- Willing to follow each other around and do class-specific quests that the other doesn't have.

 

Guess you missed the "RPG" part of MMORPG and the heavy Story-focus of TOR. My character's story is about him and his companions, not about begging in General chat for people to quest with because I want to be able to heal properly in group content.

 

Questing tends to be designed around people being self-sufficient, so it is expected I should not be at a substantial disadvantage if I want to also be able to serve a specific role in a group.

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I think nescessary is too strong of a word.

 

I also think it's a bit absurd that in a massively multiplayer game, a game specifically designed around you playing with other people, that anyone can truly say they *need* to be completely self-reliant.

 

Make friends. Have fun. And I hope the game weeds out the people who just absolutely refuse to make friends. There are all kinds of other games for those people. MMOs like this should do the exact opposite and encourage social bonding.

 

Being reliant on others and dual speccing are 2 different concepts. What if they want a pvp dps spec, and a pve healing spec? All not having one does limit people from playing different roles they may enjoy.

 

SWToR particularly will benefit from this because of the length of time and redundancy of rerolling a new toon that share the same story line

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no no and no, that idea that I want a toon that can do everything is messing up the game play, choose your path, and live it

 

So your suggesting i never pvp because i chose a spec for PVE raiding that i also enjoy?

 

There is nothing to be lost with dual specs and a ton to gain. If you think you want to pick one playstyle and never change, then do so. My ability to fill a couple roles i enjoy playing does not need to effect you

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I've been gaming for decades, and I've never agreed that dual-specs are necessary.

 

In the end, what every demand for them comes down to is "I want my ONE character to be able to fill MORE THAN ONE role."

 

You simply need to create more than one character. What every one of these requests is asking for is the need to not have to create and level a second character, which I do not agree is something the game should provide.

 

At the very least, dual-spec is most certainly not necessary, just a convenient time-saver.

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no no and no, that idea that I want a toon that can do everything is messing up the game play, choose your path, and live it

 

--What "do everything"? I'm not sure what role you play, probably just DPS who doesn't have a difficult time finding groups currently because there's a LOT of people leveling and Healing/Tanking can be done at lower levels without a heavy investment in Skills or Gear.

 

But have you considered higher level experience? Have you considered when content becomes more challenging and requires people be fully proficient at their roles that people aren't going to be able to do any role half-way, they're going to have to do a much more legitimate job at focusing on it?

 

Even if all you did was DPS all day long, have you just considered you may want to do so in completely different ways in PVE vs PVP? Things you may be good at in one may not transition over as well to the other. So when you say "doing everything messes up the game play", I'm not talking about doing everything, I'm talking about having a small choice because people perform differently in different situations... rather than forcing someone to do exactly 1 thing in all situations in a way that doesn't pan out the same.

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The reason that I support Dual-Specing is that it is saddening to see (as a tank) that there is a lack of a specific role (Heals/Tanks or God forbid DPS) on a server in a certain level range having only one spec drastically increases time it takes to form said groups.

 

In addition, the goal of this game is to be story driven and if I want to play a Vanguard DPS and a Vanguard Tank I should not have to redo the same story 2 twice. It just adds an unnecessary grind to a game that already take supposedly around 200 hrs to hit max level.

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There have been some threads lately on the lack of healers in the game. There have also been tons of threats of posts that are against dual spec.

 

I wonder how many people are complaining about the possibility of dual speccing while also complaining about a lack of healers.

 

Personally, I'd be more willing to roll a healer if there was dual speccing. I'm having no problems leveling in a tank spec, but I don't know that I'm willing to give it a go in a healing spec.

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I think the only 'Must' in dual speccing (i.e. the only really good argument for it) is having a PVE spec and a PVP spec. I think that allowing players to be automatically switched to their PVP spec when they enter the PVP games (not world PVP) would be a good idea and allow people to enjoy PVPing.

 

 

I don't think the game needs to have a dual spec that allows players in PVE to constantly change class skills though.

 

btw, I do not play PVP and only play PVE as a Scoundrel Healer and yea, it can really suck when I am out in the wilderness alone, but that is what Companions are for.

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At the end of the day, it's a quality of life issue. We already have unlimited respecs (assuming you have the credits), so it's just a matter of how much tedium should be involved to switch skill points around.

 

Personally, I'd like to see the Guild Wars version of respecs, where I can swap out my points at will at no spec at any rest zone. Ideally, we'd also be able to save a number specs and associated hotbars so we don't have to waste time rejigging the hotbars every time you go from healing to dps.

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Actually you are wrong about corruption. I've specced in madness and I've had a damn hard time fighting mobs even with my companion. I specced in corruption in beta and had an easier time fighting mobs because I could heal myself more and cast static barrier a lot quicker with ionization *********** me.
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I think dual specs would ruin the immersion factor of the game. I felt the same way at first after playing Rift but getting more into the game I like the consistent feel of the character during the whole thing. No POOF I'm a healer.. POOF I'm a warrior! POOF... I'm a whatever.
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no no and no, that idea that I want a toon that can do everything is messing up the game play, choose your path, and live it

 

enjoy waiting forever to find healers and tanks then.

 

luckily they've said multiple times that dual spec is something they want to implement post launch

Edited by VicSkimmr
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I've been gaming for decades, and I've never agreed that dual-specs are necessary.

 

In the end, what every demand for them comes down to is "I want my ONE character to be able to fill MORE THAN ONE role."

 

You simply need to create more than one character. What every one of these requests is asking for is the need to not have to create and level a second character, which I do not agree is something the game should provide.

 

At the very least, dual-spec is most certainly not necessary, just a convenient time-saver.

 

Again, you can't see the forest for the trees. Are you suggesting that I should roll one PvP toon and one PvE toon? Really?

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I don't know if dual spec is necessarily the answer, maybe a cap or limit to the amount of gold spec changing costs.

 

I also feel like limiting advanced classes is both a good and bad idea. People tend to complain less about other classes when they have first hand experience with them.

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Guess you missed the "RPG" part of MMORPG and the heavy Story-focus of TOR. My character's story is about him and his companions, not about begging in General chat for people to quest with because I want to be able to heal properly in group content.

 

Questing tends to be designed around people being self-sufficient, so it is expected I should not be at a substantial disadvantage if I want to also be able to serve a specific role in a group.

 

Hardly. I play on an RP server. But roleplaying is not the same as writing a novel. I don't know how people assosciate the two. Roleplaying is simply acting as if you were someone else. You can't pre-write everything in a roleplaying game. Your story emerges as you play it. Make some additional friends, is all I'm saying.

 

Games that have strong legacies and are remembered fondly (EQ) are the ones that get players to work together. Games that allow a person to play the whole thing alone are not well remembered and people are always chomping at the bit for something better to come along.

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no no and no, that idea that I want a toon that can do everything is messing up the game play, choose your path, and live it

 

I totally agree. Bioware should punish players for playing their class.

 

If BW was smart they would realize that punishing players and taking away the "fun" out of theory crafting and experimentation is always a good idea.

 

Please BW for the love of God don't allow experimentation with specs. Punish players for having fun and you'll get a great game.

 

Thanks for reading this stupid post.

 

 

Dual spec should have been built in 6 months ago

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Being reliant on others and dual speccing are 2 different concepts. What if they want a pvp dps spec, and a pve healing spec? All not having one does limit people from playing different roles they may enjoy.

 

This is something of a bogus argument. People can play a PVP DPS spec and a PVE healing spec with the current setup. There are 8 character slots per server.

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From beta posts that I have seen, there were people who swore they leveled FASTER as a healer/tank by making liberal of their companions. They tended to gear up their damage dealing companions IN ADDITION to themselves and had less downtime in comparison to if they were a damage dealing class.
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