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Confused and dissatisfied about crafing

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Confused and dissatisfied about crafing

AnjyBelle's Avatar


AnjyBelle
07.15.2013 , 03:54 AM | #1
When I started the game on release day, I had a vision:
I wanted to create several toons and master all the crafting-/gathering skills. I wanted to be able to make any needed item by myself rather than buying it from GTN or elsewhere.

During my "first period" in the game until about June 2012 this was ok. Then I took a break and returned in April of this year. Meanwhile the game was a hybrid of subscribing and FtP. I subsribed again to get all my crewskills back. But I guess, many things have changed.

1) Complete items like e.g. a blaster canon or a chestpiece of any armour are hard to sell. When I use the inspect-feature on players, I notice that a vast majority wears / uses orange items, which are for a great part cartel-items. Would you agree, when I say that these cartel items are a reason, why our crafted items are mostly inferior?

2) Every crafter knows, that it is somewhat tedious, expensive and time consuming to make the "best" (artifact / purple) items. Shouldn't we be rewarded by having finally better items? This seems not to be the case. As example: I can craft a "general's jacket" for lvl 52 smugglers for which I managed to get the purple quality. My scoundrel was equipped with purple lvl 50 modifications (armouring, mod and enhancement). The purple lvl 52 item was only as good in armouring (140), ways worse in endurance and some other important stats. Only the crit-stat was a bit better.
Now I ask about the sense of this. How can a purple item be so lousy compared to "orange" stuff with modifications of two levels lower? I am tempted to see a massive discouragement in this, telling us "...don't craft".

3) Over all I spent hundreds of thousands if not even millions credits to get my crewskills up. Although I have some toons over level 50 I am far from being "rich". Thus, I can't afford the insane prices which I had to pay to buy the rare mats from GTN. I must rely on crafting missions and that my companions crit here and there. The drop rate of rare mats (e.g. berylius) are soooo ridiculously small, that it really seems to be wasted time and money (I play for myself and don't do flash points etc.).
On the other hand low level "rare" mats sell for unbelievably high amounts, e.g. mullinine and other low-/ mid tier underworld metals. Who buys this stuff? Is it really better to do only gathering, sell for ridiculous prices and then simply buy the desired items from GTN?

4) The "culture" of the community seems to be a bit ....ambivalent.
As example: The crew skills vendor is just a minute away from GTN and sells unlimited amounts of the necessary mats, like brazing flux etc. Some missions yield good amounts of these mats. Nevertheless, on GTN (many) players offer the same items for reasonably higher prices. What is the idea? Do we really have so many, who enjoy to pull other (not so experienced) players over the barrel?

5) Crew skill missions should yield - amongst other items - schematics for the crafters. Is this broken? I don't know, how many "elegant double bladed light sabers", "dread scout gloves" etc. I simply sold at the vendor, because GTN has these over many pages (some people try to sell even these schematics for five-digit amounts of cash - lol - ). Is there an idea behind this, that we get spammed with rather useless stuff, while other schematics are either not existent or ultra rare?

As I see things currently, crafting is at most a hobby but not a serious feature. In many other threads people say just about the same under different aspects.
Some say, that EA / BW want us to buy cartel stuff and thus, making it hard to get "exotic" and high tier mats.

Is it really the case, that "FtP" and serious crafting can't coexist?

Gloomycakes's Avatar


Gloomycakes
07.15.2013 , 08:00 AM | #2
1. I played before the cartel market was introduced but after you could augment any gear, thus get easy moddable armours with a skin of choice. I've never (honestly) seen anyone wear crafted gear at level 50. People always had either the Tioneese/Columi/Rakata/Campaign/Dread Guard basic skins or transferred the Campaign to moddable armour with a skin of choice, the cartel market simply supplied us with a lot more choice.

2. You must realise because we spend so much time at level 50, we have more gear introduced than the 'basic' level of (22) which was assigned to level 49. At level 50 we could go up to (27) which is a lot higher than the actual level intended, but needed for gear progression when level 50 was the max level. This obviously gives issues when you introduce a new levelcap. Rest assured, level 54 craftables (28) are still better than Dread Guard (27) whether people actually bother with them is a second (I meet people who do, I meet people who don't, I never really meet people that use anything but the armourings/enhancements/mods how-ever)

3. Yes, in a lot of cases it can be cheaper to sell raw materials, but not every case. To make crafting profitable you need to know what people want and what is 'cheap' to craft compared to their sellprice. MK-9 augment kits work amazingly well on my server, if I gather the materials myself it costs me an average of 15k (and time, loads of time) to craft 1 kit, if I'd buy the materials it would cost me around 60k to craft 1 kit and I sell them between 70-80k most of the time. I also 'only' actively send companions on gathering missions and the Rich slicing missions, they return 4 purples if it crits which sell between 60-100k on my server and the augments (require 4 to craft) sell around 80-100k. All in all way more profitable than any other mission crewskill, such as UWT, I ended up just buying those materials if I need them. (Note: I do have them at 450, just never log on those characters)

4. Yes, yes we do. Loads of people only see profit and you need only 1 buyer to make profit.

5. Schematics obtained with mission-crewskills are generally cheap because their demand is very low (non-excistend maybe) and supply is huge, due to many people running them for materials rather than the schematics. The schematics that are well-desired, such as 31 mods and certain colourcrystals are so rare and so expensive because they're difficult to obtain. As they should be, if anyone could easily get their hands on a 31 schematic, everyone would craft their gear and no-one would do Operations, not something a game wants.

As for your last comment. Crafting is not a hobby of mine, but it wields between 300-1000k a day for me depending whether I focus on it or just send my companions out whilst doing other things, so I do find it quite an important feature of the game because everyone (except since level 10 full-time PvP'ers who will not have any companions) a way to make money whilst doing what they enjoy doing.

And to actually be of help. Look into:
- Augments, anything augment related is incredibly well-desired, like former mentioned. MK-9 Augmentation kits are so profitable right now. (Cybertech droid parts are the best to get the components)
- Low-level stuff. Yes, people spend tons of money on their new toons. I find Armourings/Barrels/Hilts/Augments a pretty good bet due to the Enhancements and Mods only costing 2 planentary commendations. Crafted gear, didn't look into it, like you said, it's a pain to get the right blue and then the right purple.
- Armourings/Mods/Enhancements/Hilts/Barrels of 28 grade, not as good as the things mentioned above.

cchwolf's Avatar


cchwolf
07.15.2013 , 08:13 AM | #3
I know where you are coming from. I've got all crew skills at 450, but I find that for things like synthweaving, armormech, armstech, I mainly just use them occasionally for gear. They're great for making augment and kits, but most of the other stuff I rarely craft for the reasons you listed.

I would like it if maybe for those skills maybe like the old artifice...they had an item for each category that you could craft that was BoP, with superior stats than anything else without raiding. Like say a 156(maybe a tad higher) rated chestpiece for an armormech, but with more aim and endurance stat etc than a similarly outfitted piece of orange gear with all 66 purple mods in it.

I think the people who post the crew skill vendor mats for higher prices, are just expecting others to pay for the convenience of not having to go to the crew skill vendor. If you do a lot of crafting on your ship, you might have a GTN terminal, and a mailbox, but no place to buy the mats if you run out. Also, like I posted in another post, you could make some profit just running the crew skill mat missions for the grade 9 stuff. An entire stack of tri-copper flux for example is just shy of 60k. Sending out M1-4X on that mission for about 2-3k yields me 12-14 regularly, and 32 or so when he crits. So even if I just sold those at vendor price, I could easily double my credit investment even without crits. Granted, its not a way to get SUPER RICH, but for people struggling with credits, it could be another minor income source.

I've found in most MMO that the lower level gathered mats do generally sell for high prices. It just caters to the people who have lots of money, but little interest in doing work for their skills. If they have 50 million credits, and make a new alt, and want to get their cybertech to 450 in a hurry...the majority will just spend a million or more on buying all the mats, and begin queuing up all the craftings to begin levelling the skills. It's just a time saver.

Dominoris's Avatar


Dominoris
07.15.2013 , 10:34 AM | #4
1. They are also newer looks so would be more ppular no matter how they are aquired. But true, the Cartel has significanly changed many crew skills and not for the better.

2. This is much the same as it was in 1.x versions. The game released with what I thought was an obvious quirk that at level 10 I could get a Black Talon jacket that would hold me for the rest of the game. Upgrade as needed. Artefact gear has always been harder to find, more costly and usable for a limited time. 11 commendations later my Black Talon jacket is top of the line again while the artefact drop is vendor trash.

3. If you have characters with all crew skills, why are you buying mats from the GTN? Some of this is also just needing to know the market now. For starters, the 400+ missions don't work like the others. You only get critical scusses with Bountiful and Rich (and Wealthy from mission discovery) missions. If Thermal Regulators are selling well on your server -- the market is getting saturated on mine -- run Slicing missions. Look at what is costing you the most to aquire and start gathering those resources for your use or for sell.

4. With Legacy rewards, you can get a vendor driod, a mailbox and a GTN terminal on your ship. Everything you need to run missions and craft with except for a supply of First Aid kits and the like. Those vendor bought crafting components up in the GTN are not targeted at the unknowing newbie as much as the veteran recluse crafter. When you are running missions and having to relog to get the right missions, it goes much faster when you do it all right there on your ship.

5. Schematics from mission rewards will get you enough to have something to level up your skills with. Getting beyond this takes some serious effort.

And BTW, thanks for the post. I can tell you are frustrated with the state of crew skills but giving us details is sooooo much better than just the old "krew skilz sux" posts that we usually get.
Clones are people two.

uncle_monty's Avatar


uncle_monty
07.15.2013 , 11:14 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by AnjyBelle View Post
Is it really the case, that "FtP" and serious crafting can't coexist?
FTP = Larger player base = Larger market = Higher demand

Find your niche in the market, and exploit it Despite the prevalence of orange gear, there is still money to be made. I hope you don't give up.

Best wishes
"You now understand why an exotic weapon or unfamiliar style will be more difficult to defend against, but until you become an expert in a particular style, in the heat of combat your mind will still struggle to grasp it's limitations."
Dark Lord Kas'im - Darth Bane 1 Path of Destruction

AnjyBelle's Avatar


AnjyBelle
07.15.2013 , 02:00 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Dominoris View Post
1.

3. If you have characters with all crew skills, why are you buying mats from the GTN? Some of this is also just needing to know the market now. For starters, the 400+ missions don't work like the others. You only get critical scusses with Bountiful and Rich (and Wealthy from mission discovery) missions. If Thermal Regulators are selling well on your server -- the market is getting saturated on mine -- run Slicing missions. Look at what is costing you the most to aquire and start gathering those resources for your use or for sell.
Oh, I almost never buy mats from GTN, except those, which are really cheap, while cheap = lower costs than running some missions plus the saved time. And for the stuff like brazing flux etc. I always run missions for these and avoid buying them in huge stacks from the vendor.

@ all

Nevertheless, there is still the question, how a level 52 purple item can be worse than a level 50 orange with level 50 purple modifications. Can we consider this as "bug" respectively badly done work of the devs?

Lustephelon's Avatar


Lustephelon
07.15.2013 , 04:43 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by AnjyBelle View Post
Oh, I almost never buy mats from GTN, except those, which are really cheap, while cheap = lower costs than running some missions plus the saved time. And for the stuff like brazing flux etc. I always run missions for these and avoid buying them in huge stacks from the vendor.

@ all

Nevertheless, there is still the question, how a level 52 purple item can be worse than a level 50 orange with level 50 purple modifications. Can we consider this as "bug" respectively badly done work of the devs?
Its not a bug, its an intentional lack of proper preparation by the designers, Its happened in every MMO I have ever played. When a game hits a Max level, the designers start to tier end game stuff so they keep people playing, however, the next expansion that ups the level cap then causes them to have new gear that is equal or better than the non/low tier end game gear.

For some reason the designers do not seem to take this issue into account when they set up the game so they don't leave proper gear skips and try things like 5 level cap increases. specifically for TOR they should have gone for 10 levels and then made all the MAKEB planetary gear start at level 54, it still would not have been perfect but it would make more of the old 49/40 gear stay relevant for another 2-3 levels. Perhaps they will learn not to do this for the next expansion.

DataBeaver's Avatar


DataBeaver
07.16.2013 , 05:43 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by AnjyBelle View Post
Nevertheless, there is still the question, how a level 52 purple item can be worse than a level 50 orange with level 50 purple modifications. Can we consider this as "bug" respectively badly done work of the devs?
This is a more or less direct result of having endgame gear with item level higher than required character level and then adding an expansion with more levels on top. If your "level 50" purple modifications have a rating of 140, they're most likely about Rakata level, which is actually item level 58. The top end gear goes beyond item level 70 these days. Here's a handy chart for mods (some numbers pulled from memory and may be slightly wrong):

Tionese: grade 23, rating 128, item level 51 (no longer available)
Columi: grade 24, rating 136, item level 56 (no longer available)
Rakata: grade 25, rating 140, item level 58 (can be obtained from Makeb planetary comms vendor)
Campaign: grade 26, rating 146, item level 61 (can be obtained with classic commendations)
Dread Guard: grade 27, rating 152, item level 63 (no longer available, highest grade for non-expansion characters)
Basic: grade 28, rating 156, item level 66 (highest grade that can be obtained from crafting trainer, can also be obtained with basic commendations)
Arkanian: grade 30, rating 162, item level 69 (can be obtained with elite commendations)
Underworld: grade 31, rating 168, item level 72 (can be obtained with ultimate commendations)
Shadowed: grade 33, rating 174, item level 75 (can be obtained from nightmare TfB and S&V operations)

If you hover over your modded item, you will see a tooltip with lines like Armoring (58) and Mod (58). These tell the item level of the installed modifications. There's no way to see the same information for non-moddable items, but the rating serves as a rough guideline. The level requirement of an item is not useful, unless you want to compare equipment available for specific level characters (usually 50 or 55).

You mentioned that you got a "General's" item. This one gives +defense and +presence, both of which are kind of useless for a smuggler. Presence only boosts your companion and is not considered useful for any class. You'd want a "Fervor" or "Hawkeye" item for a dps or a "Supremacy" or "Vehemence" item for a healer. These give +power, +critical, +accuracy and +alacrity, which are much more useful stats.

The difficulty of obtaining the schematic for the correct non-moddable item is one reason why many people, myself included, prefer custom armors. In the worst case you'll need to get all three blue quality schematics and then all five purple quality schematics from the correct blue one. This may involve more than a hundred items crafted. And you need to repeat the process for a total of seven pieces of armor. Each green schematic also has some base stats which can't be changed, even if you'd like something different. Compare this with modifications, where you can pick the one with correct stats to begin with and usually obtain a purple variant in less than 20 crafts. Granted, you'll need four or five different modification items for a balanced setup, but it's still vastly easier, and you get more freedom in picking the stats.

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
07.16.2013 , 06:29 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by DataBeaver View Post
You mentioned that you got a "General's" item. This one gives +defense and +presence, both of which are kind of useless for a smuggler. Presence only boosts your companion and is not considered useful for any class.
I disagree. I'm currently doing Belsavis a lot, and I need to have my Companions as "tanks", sort of.
They keep the damage away from me so that I can damage their opponents. Meanwhile they add to the overall damage, too.
From this perspective, I find it indeed useful, personally.

In PvP, however, it wouldn't make any sense, because there just aren't any Companions participating.
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

AnjyBelle's Avatar


AnjyBelle
07.16.2013 , 08:04 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by DataBeaver View Post
You mentioned that you got a "General's" item. This one gives +defense and +presence, both of which are kind of useless for a smuggler. Presence only boosts your companion and is not considered useful for any class. You'd want a "Fervor" or "Hawkeye" item for a dps or a "Supremacy" or "Vehemence" item for a healer. These give +power, +critical, +accuracy and +alacrity, which are much more useful stats.

The difficulty of obtaining the schematic for the correct non-moddable item is one reason why many people, myself included, prefer custom armors. In the worst case you'll need to get all three blue quality schematics and then all five purple quality schematics from the correct blue one. This may involve more than a hundred items crafted. And you need to repeat the process for a total of seven pieces of armor. Each green schematic also has some base stats which can't be changed, even if you'd like something different. Compare this with modifications, where you can pick the one with correct stats to begin with and usually obtain a purple variant in less than 20 crafts. Granted, you'll need four or five different modification items for a balanced setup, but it's still vastly easier, and you get more freedom in picking the stats.
Thanks for the very useful chart.

About my "General's item":

The name of the item - which is a lvl 52 medium armour chestpiece - is "General's Jacket". From the basic schematic I did exactly what you described. Please remember, that I have all crafting skills at 450 except armstech. When I left the game last year all my crafters had 400. Thus, I am familiar with the processes.
Back to the "General's Jacket":
From the basic schematic I got all types of purple: Leaderschip, verfor, supremacy etc. Indeed I crafted a lot of greens and blues <g>. The armour I mentioned above is a "Critical...." and has crit, accuracy, surge and endurance as stats.
In my opionion this far from being "useless" for a smuggler / scrapper or a gunslinger.

But as you and the other posters mentioned, it is currently either not properly implemented, poor design or intentional omission, that these items are rather useless because they are inferior to items which are levels lower.

I just can hope, that this will change in future, because crafting in SWTOR is one of my main reasons to stay here.