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Who started the 'Free with mats' culture?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Who started the 'Free with mats' culture?

cchwolf's Avatar


cchwolf
07.15.2013 , 08:57 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by JamieKirby View Post
Which I am sure, has been made back 100x by overcharging for items like majority of the crafters tend to do.
If you intend to sell items with your crafting skills, it's an investment. Your own time, and credits are expended in order to reap higher dividends later. I don't know anyone who takes a lot of time working on their crew skills in the hopes of just breaking even.

Overcharging is also easily countered by ''not buying''. If the price is too high, and the majority of players think so too...the items will just sit on gtn. Eventually the price comes down to one where crafters can sell regularly.

My motto is generally ''When in doubt, list for high price''. Why not? IF the item doesn't sell, I get my deposit back anyways. There is no risk involved. If I make something that takes 2 mythra, 4 turadium to craft, and someone gave me the choice to sell it for 15k, or 50k...guess which one I would choose.

Jimvinny's Avatar


Jimvinny
07.15.2013 , 11:17 AM | #22
For anyone who refuses to tip or pay a fee, fine. Go get the drop yourself, and quit trying to use someone else's hard work to make up for your inability to clear content. Because that's really what this comes down to; People who want near-BIS gear without doing the content that drops it. Well fine. If you don't want to give me a tip after I RE'd SEVEN skill barrels to get the schematic, don't tip. And I sure as hell won't craft for you.

parmie's Avatar


parmie
07.15.2013 , 11:23 PM | #23
If there weren't crit results you could see justification for fees. With duplicate crit results, it is really greedy to expect a fee on top of the crit results you put on the gtn (which you get from someone else's time and effort from their mats).

People will be doing content anyway, the guy who RE'd 7 barrels without taking the drop himself? well, more fool your guild for letting you do that.

SwoopingLion's Avatar


SwoopingLion
07.16.2013 , 01:56 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
Let's not get started on this please. It's semantics: "tip" or "fee." Yes, strictly speaking a "tip" is optional and a "fee" is not, but in the world of MMOs both are payment for services rendered..

I never understand this sort of comment. It's not "semantics". The two words have different meanings and connotations so it's pertinent to use the one that refers to the thing you actually mean to refer to.
An elegant weapon, for a more civilized age.

Starglitter's Avatar


Starglitter
07.16.2013 , 01:18 PM | #25
Mmm...

Not sure how crafting is done at SWTOR, but had done so in so many other MMORPGs and eventually concluded it was not worth the effort and expense to pursue, unless you wanted to ensure availability for your alts and friends, so for the first time, I did not even bothered to try for SWTOR.

But when I was trying to develop my skill up, I would be happy to craft for free, if materials were provided, for the player was helping me with my education expenses. Once I have reached the pinnacle of crafting, and I was open for business, I would try to craft stuff for profit but found it was nearly impossible. Partly because players could acqurie through adventuring for free, and they are in general too cheap to want to pay up. I remember having an argument with somebody who wanted me to make them a level 50 critical bow, and I took him to the market so he could add the price for the materials to make one, and still would not want to pay me enough to break even (even if I succeded in the first try), he even asked me, if I went out on my alts and collected materials as I played, and thus I should not charge him for materials! Obviously I refused to make the bow for him, and wrote his name to make sure I never dealt with him ever again.

As a rule of thumb, when I did try to make money, I would take the average "market" cost of the ingredients needed to construct it and added 10% as a mark-up, which frankly is quite cheap, but ironically seldom sold any items at such price.

In general I feel sorry for the crafters in any game, to include this one. I have felt the developers have not thought through out the crafting environment, and thus crafting is often hurt by a very miser population. I had always felt that if all items were acquirable with credits, then crafters could undercut the game vendors and do make a living out of it. But that in itself would bring other issues as having the develoeprs cap the potential profits a crafter could make, or a player from acquiring a rare drop and trying to sell it.

Sue

Ayakin_Solaris's Avatar


Ayakin_Solaris
07.16.2013 , 01:38 PM | #26
Think the main reason people craft for free for mats is because of the crit chance (and how much money can be made off a crit ona 72 item) and also because of how hard the mats are to come by.

On my server, the MMG's sell for approx 450-500k each and the Isotope 5 goes for 200k each. That's a lot of credits for one piece, which equates to a lot of grinding credits through dailies or whatever.

Still think it's not unreasonable for a crafter to ask for a fee, purely for the time spent crafting the item, which could have been spent crafting other items which then could be sold to make credits, plus it's only a crit chance. I don't really have much experience of it, but would have thought somewhere in the region of 100-200k tip/free wouldn't be unreasonable.

Plus you can still make a lot of credits crafting the 66 mods, armorings and enhancements.

Vishnell's Avatar


Vishnell
07.18.2013 , 08:27 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by MrStewieGriffin View Post
Hi

What I don't understand is people expect me to craft them grade 31 items for free (Including the premades) with mats even if they know that you are practically the only one on the server that can craft a certain item.

Do crafters do free with mats even if they are not in a competitive market many suppliers? Or is this a justification for lower prices by the buyers?
.
When I was the first person on Prophecy of the Five to learn the Resolve Hilt 30, I absolutely charged a HUGE "tip" to craft it for people. I had to re-engineer 7 resolve main hands before I learned it (which were not easy to get. I had to pay off people to trade their main-hand tokens they won). I knew that if I started to do it "free +mats" that there would be a ton of other sellers within days. By keeping by price big, I eliminated the amount of people that would learn the schematic cheap. If someone else was going to learn to schematic off my crafted hilts, I was going to be sure they paid a lot of money to do so. A lot of people refused to pay my price, but a lot of people did. Some of those people that paid a lot for multiple hilts learn the schematic. Good for them. I made a lot of money, now they could too. After a few weeks the price came down because a lot of people learned the schematic. But to answer OP's question: Yes people will want something for free, it's human nature. But there are also a lot of greedy people that will pay a lot of money for your stuff that will surely make up for those that don't

AidanLightwalker's Avatar


AidanLightwalker
07.20.2013 , 05:59 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by wainot-keel View Post
First, you can do business whatever way you like. No one's disputing that. But of course people don't want to pay a fee/tip. They know you keep the crits, which is a another item for "free". That's what they give to you when they give the mats, a chance to get an item for you for "free".
And as you well know, crafters have been doing hundreds of millions crafting for "free". Funny how that works.
The way you word this is very misleading. First, crits are not garunteed. So its okay to give out free crafts on an off chance that I crit? More often than not, we don't crit. So I get nothing?? Nice. Second, a crit gives another item for free. That implies that you actually get to keep the first item. You don't. Its suppose to go to the person who gave you the mats. So instead of saying, a crit gives you "another" item for free, a crit gives you a chance to make some money off your service. If not, o well. That's what they give you when they give you mats? A chance to get another item for free?! Wrong! They are giving you mats so that THEY can get their item and you MIGHT get an item to sell. MIGHT!! Last, yes some people do this and make credits, I however have never done this and have made 100s of millions of credits.
Even the smallest of light sources can light up the darkness.
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Darevsool's Avatar


Darevsool
07.22.2013 , 07:28 AM | #29
I'm torn on this when it's specifically about items that provide a 2nd item upon a crit. For that I would say seller's preference and let it be. You do get the 2nd one that you can sell on the GTN.

For items that don't give a 2nd when you get a crit, absolutely charge a fee. There's NO incentive to craft relics/earpieces/implants/etc for "trade for mats."
2nd wave early access (December 13, 2011) Original CE owner
Former (final) Testing Player Senator for Star Wars Galaxies

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
07.22.2013 , 08:37 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by AidanLightwalker View Post
The way you word this is very misleading. First, crits are not garunteed. So its okay to give out free crafts on an off chance that I crit? More often than not, we don't crit. So I get nothing?? Nice. Second, a crit gives another item for free. That implies that you actually get to keep the first item. You don't. Its suppose to go to the person who gave you the mats. So instead of saying, a crit gives you "another" item for free, a crit gives you a chance to make some money off your service. If not, o well. That's what they give you when they give you mats? A chance to get another item for free?! Wrong! They are giving you mats so that THEY can get their item and you MIGHT get an item to sell. MIGHT!! Last, yes some people do this and make credits, I however have never done this and have made 100s of millions of credits.
First, yeah, of course crits are not guaranteed. that's why we call them crits.

Second, no crafter gives out their crits unless they are crafting for a friend or guildie.

Third, yes, it is about people giving you their mats so you can have a chance of getting an item for yourself. It IS a very profitable approach. Everybody knows this. But you seemed outraged about it, like people are trying to take advantage of you or something.