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Stolen Idea- Preemptive questioning

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
Stolen Idea- Preemptive questioning

Gondolindhrim's Avatar


Gondolindhrim
07.12.2013 , 04:21 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Syberduh View Post
Yeah defensive cooldowns/mitigation are definitely what dps ops need most.
Totally agree. It's also more challenging to "fix", since the only way I think it'd really work out is by inventing a new defensive cooldown that's unique, effective and still balanced. When you look at the defensive cooldowns of a Marauder, no amount of Evasion, Shield Probe or self-healing buffs alone will make Operatives come close.
Lyell, Gunslinger | Rheiya, Guardian | Adelynn, Sage | Fyrellis, Sentinel | Kayleen, Shadow | Bao-der, Vanguard | Hailey, Commando
Syeeda, Operative | Circumspectus, Sniper | Freiya, Juggernaut | Shyala, Powertech | Zeyus, Marauder
The Red Eclipse

Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
07.13.2013 , 08:17 PM | #12
for PvE, the stealth detection is meh, never actually find u stealth if tank runs first, neither does most of the aoe dmg break the stealth.... for the Dots,, is just the same with Sorc madness + sorc heals.... same problem, and with everyones dot, agree is something they have to fix, but its not operative specific, Also once u have played enough your op, u know when to re dot even without watching the dot, its a good fix, but after all, not operative specific.

something they really have to do, is giving round / weird mobs, 360% backstab availability, stuff like TFB portals, anomalies, irregularities, are hard to know *** is its back, and most of the time it just gives red text saying u cant hit, for anyone playing good OP dps in nim tfb, u would know Backstab is basically one of the few stuff u can use there without hindering your rotation / energy.

nothing else in mind for PvE TBH, they are really good right now, have the whole package, if they planning to do Ops bosses like nim SaV... i would suggest to give Ops a wannabe knock back or an ability that roots / different stun, at least for healers... wont spoil, when someone get there, u will understand.

PvP i would think for concealment, ghost talent should allow HS to be used off stealth while the speed buff is on, without being able to knock them flat in the face (talent should only work while HS from stealth), that should fix the whole problem there...
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
07.13.2013 , 08:17 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Gondolindhrim View Post
Totally agree. It's also more challenging to "fix", since the only way I think it'd really work out is by inventing a new defensive cooldown that's unique, effective and still balanced. When you look at the defensive cooldowns of a Marauder, no amount of Evasion, Shield Probe or self-healing buffs alone will make Operatives come close.
would really appreciate if people label PvE or PvP their comments, as for what i read there, if its PvE, u cant be more wrong... if its PvP i would have to agree with you.
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

MiralukaJedi's Avatar


MiralukaJedi
07.14.2013 , 02:28 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Carlenux View Post
for PvE, the stealth detection is meh, never actually find u stealth if tank runs first, neither does most of the aoe dmg break the stealth.... for the Dots,, is just the same with Sorc madness + sorc heals.... same problem, and with everyones dot, agree is something they have to fix, but its not operative specific, Also once u have played enough your op, u know when to re dot even without watching the dot, its a good fix, but after all, not operative specific.

something they really have to do, is giving round / weird mobs, 360% backstab availability, stuff like TFB portals, anomalies, irregularities, are hard to know *** is its back, and most of the time it just gives red text saying u cant hit, for anyone playing good OP dps in nim tfb, u would know Backstab is basically one of the few stuff u can use there without hindering your rotation / energy.

nothing else in mind for PvE TBH, they are really good right now, have the whole package, if they planning to do Ops bosses like nim SaV... i would suggest to give Ops a wannabe knock back or an ability that roots / different stun, at least for healers... wont spoil, when someone get there, u will understand.

PvP i would think for concealment, ghost talent should allow HS to be used off stealth while the speed buff is on, without being able to knock them flat in the face (talent should only work while HS from stealth), that should fix the whole problem there...
I've not really had a problem with DoTs due to rotation, but that's from a PVE sense. As you said, once you get the hang of it you just know when to reapply. However, I'm trying to list whatever anyone says regardless of my opinions on it.

The round things though I could say is about the same. Enemies like that I tend to get the hang of and know where to stand. If it is an enemy that attacks a specific person, I just stand opposite tank. If an enemy that just stands there, usually behind its starting position works. However, I can agree that it can be a pain at times (mainly if someone pulls, etc). Either way, I'll add this to first post.

As for stealth detect, I was more talking bosses with Stealth Detect (usually only flashpoints so not really a big deal, but still a pain) to the point where everyone else can stand 15m away and be fine. If your stealthed and 15m away it pulls. It isn't vital since its mostly just flashpoints, but it is still annoying and makes me glad I'm lethality not concealment.

Quote: Originally Posted by Carlenux View Post
would really appreciate if people label PvE or PvP their comments, as for what i read there, if its PvE, u cant be more wrong... if its PvP i would have to agree with you.
Pretty sure they were PVP. Almost every comment is PVP :P At same time, I couldn't say I agree or disagree. Our defensive cooldowns are pretty crappy, but at same time shield probe tends to do it for the few times when you're going to take damage. Most damage in PVE is avoidable and the little that isn't shield probe isn't. But again, probably a PVP comment since shield probe and evasion are terrible in PVP <.<

Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
07.14.2013 , 02:46 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by MiralukaJedi View Post
I've not really had a problem with DoTs due to rotation, but that's from a PVE sense. As you said, once you get the hang of it you just know when to reapply. However, I'm trying to list whatever anyone says regardless of my opinions on it.

The round things though I could say is about the same. Enemies like that I tend to get the hang of and know where to stand. If it is an enemy that attacks a specific person, I just stand opposite tank. If an enemy that just stands there, usually behind its starting position works. However, I can agree that it can be a pain at times (mainly if someone pulls, etc). Either way, I'll add this to first post.

As for stealth detect, I was more talking bosses with Stealth Detect (usually only flashpoints so not really a big deal, but still a pain) to the point where everyone else can stand 15m away and be fine. If your stealthed and 15m away it pulls. It isn't vital since its mostly just flashpoints, but it is still annoying and makes me glad I'm lethality not concealment.



Pretty sure they were PVP. Almost every comment is PVP :P At same time, I couldn't say I agree or disagree. Our defensive cooldowns are pretty crappy, but at same time shield probe tends to do it for the few times when you're going to take damage. Most damage in PVE is avoidable and the little that isn't shield probe isn't. But again, probably a PVP comment since shield probe and evasion are terrible in PVP <.<
right was just saying its not an op problem, is a whole Swtor engine problem, the dot thing is from release with all classes >.< it sucks... about round things, rly hard to know depending on fight... agree on the rest... shield probe in lethality is raelly good, people just underestimate it... it absorbs around 5-6k every 30 secs... thats 10 times min in a normal 5 minutes fight ... evasion is a tanking OP 5 secs ... and off heals, people who play dps OP and dont help with off heals in hard fights, are bad... i could do 2550 dps in styrak NiM and 300 HPs to keep certain people up in certain time, for PvE its not a problem.... but for PvP omg those CDs does suck lolol
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

MiralukaJedi's Avatar


MiralukaJedi
07.14.2013 , 02:56 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Carlenux View Post
right was just saying its not an op problem, is a whole Swtor engine problem, the dot thing is from release with all classes >.< it sucks... about round things, rly hard to know depending on fight... agree on the rest... shield probe in lethality is raelly good, people just underestimate it... it absorbs around 5-6k every 30 secs... thats 10 times min in a normal 5 minutes fight ... evasion is a tanking OP 5 secs ... and off heals, people who play dps OP and dont help with off heals in hard fights, are bad... i could do 2550 dps in styrak NiM and 300 HPs to keep certain people up in certain time, for PvE its not a problem.... but for PvP omg those CDs does suck lolol
I actually am REALLY glad to hear that you toss off-heals too. I've seen some of your parses and numbers (You and Dizella) and your both the reason I went "Alright damn it, I'm going to get this Operative kicking ***." Worked too, one of the DPS I run with has given up beating me and is now struggling with the other for second place. Second place just goes "Congrats you won again. **** you." I never noticed off-heals from skimming parses, but I'll be honest I always felt a bit upset when I tossed some heals and then went "goodbye DPS...I won't place in the statistics section"

Shield probe I've found to be fairly helpful in PVE. Not amazing, but good enough if the tank does his job. Evasion I've found situationally useful due to the limit on damage type.

Now I just wish my people would get started on NIM S+V <.< I'm curious why you need a knockback >.>

Gondolindhrim's Avatar


Gondolindhrim
07.14.2013 , 03:25 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Carlenux View Post
would really appreciate if people label PvE or PvP their comments, as for what i read there, if its PvE, u cant be more wrong... if its PvP i would have to agree with you.
Yes, all of my comments so far have been for PvP.
Lyell, Gunslinger | Rheiya, Guardian | Adelynn, Sage | Fyrellis, Sentinel | Kayleen, Shadow | Bao-der, Vanguard | Hailey, Commando
Syeeda, Operative | Circumspectus, Sniper | Freiya, Juggernaut | Shyala, Powertech | Zeyus, Marauder
The Red Eclipse

PumaI's Avatar


PumaI
07.25.2013 , 05:44 PM | #18
Getting a killing blow should reset the timer of stealth out, much like it gives you a TA for killing someone.
-Never tell me the odds!
Denya [Bastion]
Assassin

JohnElias's Avatar


JohnElias
07.25.2013 , 08:52 PM | #19
PvP - Concealment only

1. Increase Shield Probe absorption by a reasonable amount, enough to call it a defensive cooldown
2. Hidden Strike -should have 100% crit from stealth
3. Make Kolto Infusion an instant heal like Lethality, this can proc when Collateral Strike procs. Tie this ability into Tactical Opportunity
4. Allow Hidden Strike to be used out of stealth, or buff overall damage of our abilities to give us enough burst to down a target quickly.
5. Energy Management is still hard, considering how long it takes to kill something.

A lot of these changes would definitely be a start to balancing Operatives and making them a viable DPS class, and bring them on par with Sins. Considering how hard Sins can hit, I wouldn't mind an overall DPS buff, but the overall agreement is that something needs to be done with Hidden Strike and our defensive cooldowns need to be looked at.
<Immortal> Xæhanort - da tank who tanks da healers in da poosy

Gondolindhrim's Avatar


Gondolindhrim
07.25.2013 , 11:47 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by JohnElias View Post
PvP - Concealment only

1. Increase Shield Probe absorption by a reasonable amount, enough to call it a defensive cooldown
2. Hidden Strike -should have 100% crit from stealth
3. Make Kolto Infusion an instant heal like Lethality, this can proc when Collateral Strike procs. Tie this ability into Tactical Opportunity
4. Allow Hidden Strike to be used out of stealth, or buff overall damage of our abilities to give us enough burst to down a target quickly.
5. Energy Management is still hard, considering how long it takes to kill something.


A lot of these changes would definitely be a start to balancing Operatives and making them a viable DPS class, and bring them on par with Sins. Considering how hard Sins can hit, I wouldn't mind an overall DPS buff, but the overall agreement is that something needs to be done with Hidden Strike and our defensive cooldowns need to be looked at.
1. Lethality already has exactly this, I'd rather see something unique for Concealment (not to mention that it wouldn't be enough either way). Other than the obvious 30% AoE damage reduction, I'd like to see a substantial damage reduction buff (something like -40% damage taken) on Sneak or Shield Probe, and a Defense buff added to Calculated Frenzy (2% or 3% per point).
2. Agreed, not much more to say.
3. Like point one, I'd rather see something new than a mechanic that already exists. Perhaps a way to reset the cooldown on Shield Probe? "Using Evasion will instantly finish the cooldown of Shield Probe" or similar (could be interesting if the 1s Evasion attached to Exfiltrate worked as well).
4. Agreed, I'm thinking something along the lines of "Shiv has a 40% chance to make your Hidden Strike free and usable out of stealth".
5. Agreed, I'd start by either reducing the energy cost of Lacerate back to its original value, or reducing the internal cooldown of Culling.
Lyell, Gunslinger | Rheiya, Guardian | Adelynn, Sage | Fyrellis, Sentinel | Kayleen, Shadow | Bao-der, Vanguard | Hailey, Commando
Syeeda, Operative | Circumspectus, Sniper | Freiya, Juggernaut | Shyala, Powertech | Zeyus, Marauder
The Red Eclipse