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PT/VG Tank Spreadsheet including accurate relic effects for 2.0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles > Tanking
PT/VG Tank Spreadsheet including accurate relic effects for 2.0

Redklaw's Avatar


Redklaw
07.06.2013 , 06:21 AM | #1
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?page...O8-ABtTd9YYs9o

UPDATE 7/8/2013: Fixed mitigation formula and adjusted absorb gain from skills. Bug with time duration on defense clicky relic is fixed as well. Thanks Kitru, Dipstik, Metallic, and Fire-breath for poking at my errors.

Just updated my PT/VG spreadsheet for 2.0, it now includes a comprehensive relic section that allows you to optimize your stats for maximum mean mitigation while accounting for the effects of relics.

The effects of relics are calculated based on non-concurrent up-times in this this spreadsheet, which is the ideal situation. This also calculate relic effects based on an infinite duration fight; you will notice a greater mean mitigation increase via relics based on lower engagement time or tank swaps due to increased relic up-times.

The stat optimization section also includes a section based on relic usage, as the optimal values will be slightly different based on what relics you are using. For example using a Relic of Fortunate Redoubt slightly devalues defense rating's overall increase to mean mitigation.

This is still a work in progress, if there is any interest in having this spreadsheet built for other classes let me know!

-Redklaw
Red'klaw - Vanguard Blueklaw - GuardianRedklaw - PowertechSaies - JuggernautRedklavv - Assassin
Tank All the Things
Phobos - Harbinger

MGNMTTRN's Avatar


MGNMTTRN
07.06.2013 , 05:28 PM | #2
Under Absorb Quantity/Skills am I reading that your overall time-weighted Absorb bonus from heat blast and the 3 pre-blast procs are assumed to be +17%? I'm curious to see what uptime PTs/Vanguards in live conditions are actually seeing.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
07.06.2013 , 05:53 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by MGNMTTRN View Post
Under Absorb Quantity/Skills am I reading that your overall time-weighted Absorb bonus from heat blast and the 3 pre-blast procs are assumed to be +17%? I'm curious to see what uptime PTs/Vanguards in live conditions are actually seeing.
I did the math here. While you're tanking a target, you're going to see ~14.6% Absorb from Energy Blast and 1.73% from Power Screen, which is 16.33%. The 17% is a *slight* overestimation but that math was done while ignoring the fact that HS has a *substantially* better proc rate than the other attacks do because it's a larger number of attacks (68% compared to 15%) because I couldn't find a decent weighted use chance. If you factor that in, 17% is about right.
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MGNMTTRN's Avatar


MGNMTTRN
07.06.2013 , 06:38 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
I did the math here. While you're tanking a target, you're going to see ~14.6% Absorb from Energy Blast and 1.73% from Power Screen, which is 16.33%. The 17% is a *slight* overestimation but that math was done while ignoring the fact that HS has a *substantially* better proc rate than the other attacks do because it's a larger number of attacks (68% compared to 15%) because I couldn't find a decent weighted use chance. If you factor that in, 17% is about right.
This was originally going to be an edit, but Kitru responded so fast. The gist of this post is, 16.33% or 17% sounds right based upon my parses but I think the results of one guy (me) and the model of one guy (Kitru) need to be corroborated by other Vanguards/PTs.

Looking at two recent HM SNV and HM TFB runs (ignoring ops chief, olok, and the horror; I should have ignored OP IX but I didn't), I saw heat blast uptimes between 47% on Dash'rode and 30% on operator IX. If I assume that my downtime was equally split between a state of +0 absorb, +1 absorb, +2 absorb, and +3 absorb, then I get values slightly lower than +17
Code:
15.0681818182 Dash
13.8235294118 T6
13.8620689655 Thrash


12.6851851852 CWL
13.4872881356 Styrak

13.3076923077 DG
11.7966101695 OP IX
12.5033557047 Keph
13.2997275204 TFB
which is an average of 13.31% or 13.23% when the fights are weighted by time...

BUT all fights have many factors that contribute to a decrease in functinal eblast uptime: the time at the beginning of a fight while eblast cannot be put on cooldown, button-pushing, forced running out of melee range, time that the other tank has aggro, and plain old waiting time. My assumption of a perfect 25% split between all states of non-heat blast absorb stacks (+0/1/2/3) is also not a good assumption; it's probably weighted heavily toward +2 and +3 absorb. This calculation also assumes that it's not possible to have the +25% eblast and +absorb stacks, which IIRC is wrong. I will check. Edit: yeah, you can build stacks while eblast is still up.

So based upon my parses, I have to agree that +16 or 17% absorb from heat blast-related effects when tanking the boss is reasonable. But I still do think other Vanguards/Powertechs need to chime in to confirm that they are seeing similar results. If people don't want to open up a spreadsheet editor but do still want to check their logs, a general rule for calculating uptime is (6*eblast count)/(minutes*60 +sec) should be between 0.35 and 0.45; if not, then either playstyle or this 16/17% estimation needs refinement.

Redklaw's Avatar


Redklaw
07.06.2013 , 08:10 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
I did the math here. While you're tanking a target, you're going to see ~14.6% Absorb from Energy Blast and 1.73% from Power Screen, which is 16.33%. The 17% is a *slight* overestimation but that math was done while ignoring the fact that HS has a *substantially* better proc rate than the other attacks do because it's a larger number of attacks (68% compared to 15%) because I couldn't find a decent weighted use chance. If you factor that in, 17% is about right.
Okay, I'll be honest here, 17% was a total guesstimation, surprised I was as close as I am. It was one of the things I was going to test out and verify that was left to be worked on. I mean I literally pulled that number out of the air.

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
07.07.2013 , 12:02 AM | #6
i love it when everything is on one page, so i can use solver right away. i removed the item changes stuff

i got the following for BiS at 2410 stat pool:
in d,s,a format

wihtout relic

1582.436399
548.4667738
279.0968271

with
1508.595197
587.0400063
314.3647971

the mitigation equation is based on the following function:
(((((100-H31)*H34)/100)*(1-(H35/100)))*(1-(H27/100)))+(((100-H31)-(((100-H31)*H34)/100))*(1-(H27/100)))

i do not see where resist chance, fraction of attacks at 90% accuracy, or a few other things are, but i like the layout and everything, its just that vangaurds are the only tank for which i predict stacking shield augments, yet the solution to maximize mitigation gives a shield rating below the minimum you can get from gear, while increasing your total pool.

Redklaw's Avatar


Redklaw
07.07.2013 , 02:55 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by dipstik View Post
i love it when everything is on one page, so i can use solver right away. i removed the item changes stuff

i got the following for BiS at 2410 stat pool:
in d,s,a format

wihtout relic

1582.436399
548.4667738
279.0968271

with
1508.595197
587.0400063
314.3647971

the mitigation equation is based on the following function:
(((((100-H31)*H34)/100)*(1-(H35/100)))*(1-(H27/100)))+(((100-H31)-(((100-H31)*H34)/100))*(1-(H27/100)))

i do not see where resist chance, fraction of attacks at 90% accuracy, or a few other things are, but i like the layout and everything, its just that vangaurds are the only tank for which i predict stacking shield augments, yet the solution to maximize mitigation gives a shield rating below the minimum you can get from gear, while increasing your total pool.
I'm not seeing how accounting for accuracy or resist chance would modify the results. These values are fixed in combat and they don't have a diminishing effect any of the variable tank stats (D/S/A). Think of the mean mitigation calculation as a calculation that factors against only hits that actually go through defensive rolls, since calculating for other potential damage has no overall effect on stat balancing.

Pretty much armor rating versus non defensible attacks, and base chance for the boss to miss / resist are not part of the pool being analyzed; rather this is a calculation of mitigation against the pool that stat balancing would effect.

(TL;DR: I'm lazy and I don't feel like adding the additional math when I don't feel like it will in any way effect the end results.)

Also there is a small fix I need to put in regarding up-times for the click relics, I didn't realize that the S/A click and the Defense click had different up-time values. One of the two is currently netting much more overall mean mitigation value than it should; however, neither of those are currently competitive against the old static war hero pvp relics. Changing the +32 power to +32 defense would make them competitive, I hope that's a bug that will be fixed soon.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
07.07.2013 , 03:29 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Redklaw View Post
Changing the +32 power to +32 defense would make them competitive, I hope that's a bug that will be fixed soon.
It's not a bug. It's part and parcel of the design intent to make the content drop relics explicitly *better* than the standard purchasable relics. The only reason the Def proc relic is explicitly better than the Abs proc relic is because of the passive Def instead of the passive Power. Honestly, I'd be happier if there were *more* "superior" relic options than just the Fort Redoubt and Seren Assault, such as if all of the relics had a purchasable variant with the non-desirable secondary stat and the only way to get the relics with the secondary stat you actually *want* is through content drops. It would require them creating more relics (hell, they could just use the naming conventions as they are now and then add the term "elite" for those that drop in content), but it would be a much more interesting loot construct.
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dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
07.08.2013 , 11:08 AM | #9
those values do affect the bis calc. taking into account the percent of damage that is at 90%$ accuracy affects the value of defense. resist chance changes the value of shield.

this is what i have been using to calc bis:

all of this assumes:
38.965% of damage is melee/ranged kinetic/energy at 90% accuracy
38.965% of damage is melee/ranged kinetic/energy at 100% accuracy
20.7% of damage is force.tech kinetic/energy damage
1.37% of damage is force/tech internal/elemetal damage

light armor: 3107
heavy: 5869

post armor mitigation:
(0.7793*(1-dr)*(0.5*(1-d-0.1)*(1-s*a)+0.5*(1-d)*(1-s*a))+0.207*(1-dr)*(1-r)*(1-s*a)+0.0137*(1-ir)*(1-r))

where d-0.1 from is from 90% accuracy attack, 0.5 from fraction melee/ranged kinetic/energy at 90% accuracy
dr is damage reduction form armor, to kinetic and energy damage
d is defense fraction
s is shield fraction
a is absorb fraction
ir is internal resistance
r is resiatance

and for 2400 my bis is:

Defense 794
Shield 978
Absorb 628


very much different than yours.

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
07.08.2013 , 11:16 AM | #10
About that shield/energyblast. Kitru is correct. The % of absorb should be around 17%.
However ..... you forgot about the 4% ablative armor skill. Total absorb rating gained by skills is 17%+4%= 21%

About the frequency of blasting:
I can tell you that in practise I blast about every 10 seconds (minimum is 9 seconds). But taking human error into account would be difficult. If thats the case then goodluck with shadow calcs. If you are out of your lazy mood you can always make a choice button about how fast the user normally clicks his/her blast.