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Releasing raid content on regular basis


phat_maban's Avatar


phat_maban
07.04.2013 , 03:55 PM | #1
So I have been speaking with a few ppl that are starting to get bored with content in game and the overall most common complaint is that there isn't enough raids in the game.

As it currently stands there is two raids for endgame raiders to hit atm thats it. The other ops no one runs because they are irrelevant even for a fresh lvl 55.

As much as I love the challenge of new NiM raids this is not new content, adding more hp to a boss and making the enrage timer tighter is still the same content. The fact that everyone knows the fight before they hit it the first time because there is already guides on the net from the pts takes away from the raid too.

What would be great to see is four or five current new content raids that raid groups could push through at the same time.

The reason I talk exclusively about raids as new content is because a raider has no reason to do a HM FP, it is irrelevant to them.

So instead of seeing new content every 8 weeks how about new raids every 3 months.

Atm I know of many raid groups that simply run NiM TFB every week for the entire lockout because they are full 72 BiS lets give them something else to run
Maban - Doubtvilified - Madras - Uglybabyeater
Midian

TrillOG-'s Avatar


TrillOG-
07.04.2013 , 05:49 PM | #2
/signed

zXBurntToastXz's Avatar


zXBurntToastXz
07.04.2013 , 06:06 PM | #3
Agreed

uniz's Avatar


uniz
07.04.2013 , 06:34 PM | #4
you reiterated two points that i have been saying for some time: an open ts where the ops strats are posted BEFORE the content is released and tiered difficulty levels for the same ops zone.

but by judging from how they easy moded lost island, which was challenging content when first released, what some of us want just won't be made or rather kepted for long.

thank you for your post op.

Vousdusky's Avatar


Vousdusky
07.04.2013 , 10:53 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by phat_maban View Post
So I have been speaking with a few ppl that are starting to get bored with content in game and the overall most common complaint is that there isn't enough raids in the game.

As it currently stands there is two raids for endgame raiders to hit atm thats it. The other ops no one runs because they are irrelevant even for a fresh lvl 55.

As much as I love the challenge of new NiM raids this is not new content, adding more hp to a boss and making the enrage timer tighter is still the same content. The fact that everyone knows the fight before they hit it the first time because there is already guides on the net from the pts takes away from the raid too.

What would be great to see is four or five current new content raids that raid groups could push through at the same time.

The reason I talk exclusively about raids as new content is because a raider has no reason to do a HM FP, it is irrelevant to them.

So instead of seeing new content every 8 weeks how about new raids every 3 months.

Atm I know of many raid groups that simply run NiM TFB every week for the entire lockout because they are full 72 BiS lets give them something else to run





Not to walk on anyones toes, but as I used to work in the industry, I want to comment on development times, as I have experienced them. I believe it took George Smith a month to develop the Dash'roode fight (just the fight, not including the environment), which didn't include beta and bug testing times.

Developing a fresh raid instance requires new models, textures, audio, programming, developing the environment, scripting each raid encounter, bug testing, tuning, etc. This simply cannot be done in an 8-week period. Also keep in mind that in the history of MMOs, no game has ever released raid content faster than the players complete it.

As a result, it's much less work to simply tune an instance to support a higher level of difficulty. This means that a team can develop that content while another team starts to develop new content. Either way, it is a time-consuming process.

RandomXChance's Avatar


RandomXChance
07.05.2013 , 08:37 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Vousdusky View Post
Not to walk on anyones toes, but as I used to work in the industry, I want to comment on development times, as I have experienced them. I believe it took George Smith a month to develop the Dash'roode fight (just the fight, not including the environment), which didn't include beta and bug testing times.

Developing a fresh raid instance requires new models, textures, audio, programming, developing the environment, scripting each raid encounter, bug testing, tuning, etc. This simply cannot be done in an 8-week period. Also keep in mind that in the history of MMOs, no game has ever released raid content faster than the players complete it.

As a result, it's much less work to simply tune an instance to support a higher level of difficulty. This means that a team can develop that content while another team starts to develop new content. Either way, it is a time-consuming process.
What a refreshing reply and a point I have been making in other threads complaining about rate of new raids (and supposed time being taken away by making NiM modes).

Most players really have little knowledge of the huge amount of work it takes to make a new raid in any MMO. On top of that, Star Wars is a very tightly controlled IP. So in addition to thinking up new and creative fights in the raids, the story lines have to be created and approved by the IP holder (Disney these days).

It does seem like the fact that we have 3 raids in the 50-54 bracket is wasted (doubly so since 55's cannot queue) and currently only 2 at end game.

Pietrastor's Avatar


Pietrastor
07.05.2013 , 06:00 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by RandomXChance View Post
Most players really have little knowledge of the huge amount of work it takes to make a new raid in any MMO. On top of that, Star Wars is a very tightly controlled IP. So in addition to thinking up new and creative fights in the raids, the story lines have to be created and approved by the IP holder (Disney these days).
Disney does not review and approve every raid. Never did, neither did LucasArts. Nor individual quests, stories etc. It's always been about general "don't kill Han/Luke/Leia or introduce time travel and try not to contradict other stuff, especially from movies" guidelines. Other than that, game devs, novel authors, comic book/TV show writers pretty much could always do whatever they wanted in this universe.

phat_maban's Avatar


phat_maban
07.05.2013 , 06:25 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by RandomXChance View Post
What a refreshing reply and a point I have been making in other threads complaining about rate of new raids (and supposed time being taken away by making NiM modes).

Most players really have little knowledge of the huge amount of work it takes to make a new raid in any MMO. On top of that, Star Wars is a very tightly controlled IP. So in addition to thinking up new and creative fights in the raids, the story lines have to be created and approved by the IP holder (Disney these days).

It does seem like the fact that we have 3 raids in the 50-54 bracket is wasted (doubly so since 55's cannot queue) and currently only 2 at end game.

Thanks for these two posts regarding the time required to create this content.

I understand the time investment but what would it require for BW to push raid content faster ?

Having one operation for a fair while is a fact of the limitations in being able to create content. I dare say the raiding community would like more operations in a faster manner so what would facilitate that faster content ?

would it mean doubling the team to create operations (which has significant investment,risk and cost)

the last I heard subs where at 900k and after ftp active accounts where at 2 million. We know the cartel market has been a successful venture could they reinvest some of those profits into expanding the team.

Although im looking forward to seeing the new fp's the content in them wont last as long as content in a new op. Could work here be better invested for a better return for the player base.

tldr understand it takes a long time to create complex content lets do that faster by allocating more resources to it
Maban - Doubtvilified - Madras - Uglybabyeater
Midian

Hxxr's Avatar


Hxxr
07.05.2013 , 11:51 PM | #9
I understand your point of view, but I also understand why PvPers want 2.4 to happen and I can appreciate new FPs and Events if they are at least interesting. It all takes time and resources have to be split up into different departments.

Apart from that, another NiM is about to be released next ID and S&V was released quite a while back so technically level 55 tier 2 shouldn't be that far off. Late August early September maybe and that's OK I think ... especially considering that gameplay actually did change a bit in NiM on more than one boss and how little groups have made their way through the content yet ... and S&V Encounters with the tuning DG received will give us a good spanking for a while - that is if BW actually has the balls to make stuff difficult again, maybe get a little more daring with new mechanics even ... red puddles on Dread Guards was a good start, easy and effective.

Before Asation NiM came out I barely had enough time to get gear since I took a rather long pause from the game due to lack of content, but now that I'm back I enjoy the game again and most things PvE related (pretty much everything except class balance) goes into the right direction.
Some fights like Operator and Kephess p1 are not that impressive to be honest, but Kephess p2 Dread Guards are fun fights that don't get old that quickly, even though not a lot has changed compared to hard mode - the changes that were made enhanced the experience a lot.
Quote: Originally Posted by Rtwozero View Post
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Vousdusky's Avatar


Vousdusky
07.06.2013 , 09:18 AM | #10
While the general preference is of course new raid instances instead of just new content by means of rehashed existing content at an increased difficulty level, if new instances come out at a non-nightmare tier level, many guilds will probably clear the content anywhere between day 1 and week 1. I think Bioware might have mentioned that there would be another raid instance released before December, and while it's a while away, I imagine as time progresses, new content will (hopefully) be released in a faster manner. I, for one, am a fan of the length of SAV, as well as it having more than 4 bosses (re: EC).