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Domino Effect and the Pyrotech

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Domino Effect and the Pyrotech

BanetheDarkLord's Avatar


BanetheDarkLord
07.03.2013 , 08:49 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by AngusFTW View Post
Nothing really changed with watchman the entire time apart from the healer player base becoming more knowledgeable about cleansing the dots..
Agreed. Watchman/Annihilation was always a bleed spec, but it has always been something that is easy to cleanse and move on. I think the only reason why we saw way more Annihilation specs back then was because Carnage/Combat wasn't as effective as it is today and not everyone wanted to use Rage. The real way to "fix" annihilation/watchman is find a way to protect their bleeds from easy cleansing somehow, such as Lingering Toxins in Lethality.

To the point about resource management for Operative, yes it is really easy to manage, especially with the fact that no Operative should EVER not have 2 TAs 95% of the time with how many abilities grant it which allows many more surgical probes over 30% than there used to be. That is something that could be debatable, whether or not to lesson the chance or one of the abilities looses the chance to grant TA.
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znihilist's Avatar


znihilist
07.03.2013 , 08:49 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by AngusFTW View Post
Nothing really changed with watchman the entire time apart from the healer player base becoming more knowledgeable about cleansing the dots..
I wasn't here prior to 1.6 so I don't know much. But were they not nerfed (maybe patch 1.3?) by reducing the self heal on bleed crits ? Beside the spec itself need some work to make it viable (mainly with dps ramp up time).
SWTOR: KotFE, Rise of the Ehh I guess I'll get used to it eventually
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AngusFTW
07.03.2013 , 08:53 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by znihilist View Post
I wasn't here prior to 1.6 so I don't know much. But were they not nerfed (maybe patch 1.3?) by reducing the self heal on bleed crits ? Beside the spec itself need some work to make it viable (mainly with dps ramp up time).
There was the self healing nerf but what difference does 1% of healing to yourself make when focusing healers? none really. Same downfalls as it always was tbh.
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znihilist's Avatar


znihilist
07.03.2013 , 09:02 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by AngusFTW View Post
There was the self healing nerf but what difference does 1% of healing to yourself make when focusing healers? none really. Same downfalls as it always was tbh.
1% more healing = more survivability = more time you can spend making sure that healer is busy! Sometimes you don't have to kill the healer, just keeping him busy achieve the required objective in mind. Beside, if I am not mistaken, Annihilation/Watchman used to be very good in attacking off-nods.
But regardless of all of that, the spec does not need major tweaking. It just has to do with two things (in my opinion) reduce the ramp up time for dps (those 4 stacks of annihilate need 40 seconds to achieve), and prolong the juyo/annihilate stacks by 2~3 GCDs.
SWTOR: KotFE, Rise of the Ehh I guess I'll get used to it eventually
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AngusFTW
07.03.2013 , 09:28 AM | #15
There will never be a way to make the spec viable for rwz without changing the specs playstyle completely but i find it quite fun to play in normals from time to time. One thing that could be looked into is maybe a talent to increase the crit chance of annihilate/merciless , it crits very little and this wasnt a problen when you'd run 30-35% crit but now with crit changes a talent like that would be beneficial. (say maybe 15-20% talent)
Many other classes have a similar thing so i don't see why watchman/anni shouldnt get it.
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Capt_Beers
07.03.2013 , 09:39 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Zunayson View Post
Well, I played AP back when PTF required 5 stacks.... I had no free GCDs in my rotation and could only do it three times before overheating

We always had something to use, and that, in my book, is sustained. If you play something like carnage, you'll have a lot of blank times where you're just doing massacre.

Also I super agree with oil slick
If you have enough Focus/Rage to spam it that it is. The change to Zen was awful for Combat/Carnage
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Ottoattack's Avatar


Ottoattack
07.03.2013 , 09:40 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by znihilist View Post
1% more healing = more survivability = more time you can spend making sure that healer is busy! Sometimes you don't have to kill the healer, just keeping him busy achieve the required objective in mind. Beside, if I am not mistaken, Annihilation/Watchman used to be very good in attacking off-nods.
But regardless of all of that, the spec does not need major tweaking. It just has to do with two things (in my opinion) reduce the ramp up time for dps (those 4 stacks of annihilate need 40 seconds to achieve), and prolong the juyo/annihilate stacks by 2~3 GCDs.
I may add as well there has been a critic chance reduction on bleed effects. And there is a ramp up on annihilate and ramp up on Juyo form (6 atks in PvP common). Many players mentioned this before, reduce the ramp up on Juyo form (stacks twice as fast) and make bleed effects unclensable and you will see a lot of annihilation marauders. And they are great healer killers between slow and interrupts.

Going back to Pyro. Unquestionably Pyro was the number 1 enemy for any healers with constant slows and burst damage, which both are much needed in current day PvP. The nerfs to pyro limited the class damage potential by 20% and between 40 to 50% in burst, paired with the class terrible defensive capabilities, pyro tech and PTs in general are the worst class currently in PvP as dps. And tank, is still behind jugg.

I do agree that the contest that the nerfs to single target classes attributed to the healotipia we currently have in WZ, but it is not the only factor. Most healers healing capacity has been upped by 20 to 25% compared to per-expansion era. I will just used sorc as an example. There are 6 healing skills (dark heal, dark infusion, inverate, barrier, hot and aoe heal). 4 out of the skills have either their cast time or healing capacity improved. In addition, sorc received a 20% alacrity buff on 120 secs cd, originally only lighting tree had. As a sorc healer, my healing capacity is around 25% stronger than it was, without taking gear into consideration. Did damage go up by 25% for most classes? No. I would argue that dps compared to hps has been reduced with the nerf of critic and surge.

Result of nerfing single target dps classes and buffing healing of all healing classes we are currently in the healotpia era. Add to that the lolster and PvP experience when from highly enjoyable to chore in matter of one patch (2.0). Will BW make any changes in 2.3? Probably not. The changes in 2.4 will be one new WZ with minor class balances like the movement speed increase in shien form in 2.2.

SlimsPicken's Avatar


SlimsPicken
07.03.2013 , 10:07 AM | #18
we sure wouldnt be seeing all these nerf Operative threads if PTs still had their burst.

They were the pre eminent Operative killer, because they eat that last 30% of your HPs like no other class did- even better than many classes with executes due to the timing on TD and ED, plus the dots burning harder below 30% you could easily ramp up the damage for a sub 30% stun kill.

This is actually an important thread to look at and think about. Because the "domino effect" is indeed an issue due to this nerf, so I would hope the devs recognize this and look into reverting PT pyro to burst rather than more senseless nerfing of a fun healing class (operative)

If anything healing is perfect now, but DPS is hard to help because its a skill cap player issue more than anything. People dont use focus fire or interrupts and stuns properly.
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cashogy_reborn
07.03.2013 , 10:14 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by TheCourier- View Post
Watchman spec got nerfed multiple times. Watchman was one of the best specs to kill medics prior to patch 1.5. Pyro powertech isn't the only spec that shouldn't have been nerfed.
isnt watchman dot based? any healer with half a brain will just cleanse those dots.....
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DimeStax
07.03.2013 , 10:29 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Boch View Post
The roll isn't the main issue with op healers. The skill itself maybe a problem. But the main reason Ops are op is they have no resource management requirements and healing in general is over tuned.. Add in all there escapes and mobility and you have an op class.
I agree. The Op roll wouldn't be an issue if Ops actually had to carefully manage their resources, but the fact that they don't means they can spam roll as frequently as they want since they always have plenty of energy.
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