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Vanguard/Powertech Rebalancing?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Vanguard/Powertech Rebalancing?
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BlackSpin's Avatar


BlackSpin
07.15.2013 , 10:25 AM | #131
Another wall of text. So you're going with "l2p"? lmao I'm very glad for you that you've found a spec/class you like. Don't expect to get invited to my rated team with a pyro PT, or a madness sin.

Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
...which goes to show you've never really built, played the spec in PvP.
*shrug* Maybe not to you. Happens to me all the time. Truth? Struggled with the spec for the first few months. Took a helluva lot of time to finally come up with a tactic and positioning that suits the class. Immediately noticed the spec was much harder to play with than the tanky one or the rogue-like one, since it only operates well under a 0-mistake policy. But "harder" means just more challenge in PvP. People who walk away from that challenge basically waiver their right to comment about how a spec plays out.

What allows me to discount your opinion is that with both Assault Vanguards and Balance Shadows, I have reasonable success with it and more than enjoy it enough to say that its effective at the right hands. The irony being that my "hands" are mediocre at best, when compared to some of the much better players around.

So if a mediocre guy like me does well with it, what does that make the rest of the people here?

The fact is the supposed playstyle you people hold with your Pyro and Assault spec, is something that befits like SWTOR 1.2 or something. I wouldn't know for sure since I haven't seen any videos or something, but seeing how the enemies I play against, or teammates I play with usually utterly PHAIL in managing their Vanguards or PTs, I can take a good guess.

They basically charge in with guns and rockets blazing as if it was version 1.2 or 1.3, fire off a few rounds with impressive burst at first, and then quickly become targets of focus fire since all that flames and zazz is like a big, "oooh kill me first" sign. That used to work way back when Pyros would melt anyone's HP down to less than 50% in the first 10 seconds of engagement, but nope, not now... and still hordes of people play it that way.

The fact that you dismiss just how effective Balance/Madness Shadow/Sins can be strengthens that suspicion, as it is more or less telling that the people here aren't too keen with the SKIRMISHER style of game play.

Learn to dance. It helps.

No amount of team can save someone when that someone simply sucks. Truth. Harsh, but.

Aelaias's Avatar


Aelaias
07.15.2013 , 10:57 AM | #132
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
Really?
They NOW have burst which assault had pre-2.0 and NOW have the mobility which assault didn't have pre-2.0. Get it?

And how exactly would you make a spec reliant on cleanseable dot viable in pvp. By turning it into something like df/lethality? No, thank you. The class needs an execute.

Finally, to whoever believes that archetypes should have one tree devoted to pvp dps and another to pve. Hurt yourself, badly.
Shadowlands
Letho - Vanguard
Óberyn-Guardian
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...7-5e5489ff3b47

cycao's Avatar


cycao
07.15.2013 , 11:11 AM | #133
Quote: Originally Posted by Aelaias View Post
They NOW have burst which assault had pre-2.0 and NOW have the mobility which assault didn't have pre-2.0. Get it?
I don't understand how a class like PT which all of its core abilities are instant has less mobility than a class which relies on casted abilities.

Yes merc has burst now and after a year of riding the pine is now viable.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
07.15.2013 , 11:16 AM | #134
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
I don't understand how a class like PT which all of its core abilities are instant has less mobility than a class which relies on casted abilities.

Yes merc has burst now and after a year of riding the pine is now viable.
i think he means "escapes". the punt roots. electro net. only 1 grav to apply armor debuff = shoot, relocate, possibly fire an hib on the run, continue roto. nowhere near as mobile as a pt though. that's more laughable than calling PTs ranged.
Krackerjack/Deinon/Antiphon
JC -- Harb -- TEH

Ottoattack's Avatar


Ottoattack
07.15.2013 , 11:35 AM | #135
Quote: Originally Posted by TheCourier- View Post
Watchman spec is weaker than assault. You statement about "no other class depend so much on healer + guard" is false. Pyro PT is not the worst spec for a class by a long shot. Watchman spec, assault spec commando, balance spec jedi shadow, and vigilance are all worse specs than pyro PT.
While I do agree that there are classes worse than pyro PT in PvP, I highly disagree that annihilation marauder is one of them. It has much better sustained damage potential, and high suriviability.

Again, if tree x in class y is beyond terrible, and pyro PT is ahead of that does not mean pyro PT is fine.

TheOneWag's Avatar


TheOneWag
07.15.2013 , 01:28 PM | #136
Pyro / Assault - Broke. Glass Cannon without the Cannon. A lot of suggestions to fix, but at the top of the list is to Fix TD / Plastique. Worthless ability that needs to be made to a 10m AOE if you want to keep the rest as-is. Blast Surge 100% proccing CGC is a start - Sticky and Mortar should also proc.

Aside from Incendiary, FT and Pulse Cannon should have their own independent Dot they apply for 12-15 sec, roughly the CD of FT / Pulse. I'm freaking shooing someone WITH LIQUID FIRE. They should be ON FIRE.

Lastly, should be a talent that significantly buffs HiB / Rail based on the number of your dots on the target. If you have CGC / TD Dot / Incindiary / FT Dot, all four dots up, Rail should hit like a truck. Great way to balance the class and also work off of the Dot mechanic.

Tactics / AP - Works in the right hands, decent utility with harpoon / taunts / AOE stun. On the side of below average though due to lack of real damage compared to similar classes (Jug / Guardian). Against a pug squad, can still do very well. Vs Organized or Ranked - good luck. A great buff would be to become CC immune while channeling a max charged Pulse Cannon / Flamethrower. It's already easy enough to avoid.

Tank - More or less fine. Make Blast Surge / Flame Sweep 100% proc Ion Cell for giggles. Make Harpoon able to also target allies.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
07.15.2013 , 02:15 PM | #137
Quote: Originally Posted by TheOneWag View Post
Tactics / AP - Works in the right hands, decent utility with harpoon / taunts / AOE stun. On the side of below average though due to lack of real damage compared to similar classes (Jug / Guardian). Against a pug squad, can still do very well. Vs Organized or Ranked - good luck. A great buff would be to become CC immune while channeling a max charged Pulse Cannon / Flamethrower. It's already easy enough to avoid.

Tank - More or less fine. Make Blast Surge / Flame Sweep 100% proc Ion Cell for giggles. Make Harpoon able to also target allies.
I'm going to have to stop you at the red bolded part. sir. you need to come with me.

BW, bring him to the "interrogation room" and beat some sense into him. fool. thinks other classes should have a sniper's skill? doesn't he know anything about how things work 'round here?

AP/Tactics is very schizo. I know I'm repeating myself, but you basically need to gut in order to use rail, but the whole point of rail is to follow-up after rocket punch. well...that's a 3 gcd chain to initiate an attack that has almost zero synergy (3% gut) with the rest of the spec's abilities. I've only started playing this again in 2.0, but I did run tactics at launch.

Wasn't immolate a dot? I can't remember. it's been so long. It would make more sense for that to be a dot as it builds stacks for flamethrower and dots for rail. voila: synergy.

also, instead of serrated blades (15% better gut), how about we just keep gut as out SLOW abil. and use that extra point to do something along the lines of the aforementioned entrench. or rebuff flame burst?

I don't like blood tracker (3% for 2 talent points is lame and basically turns a 10m spec into a 4m). incidentally, gut gets cleansed almost immediately. I think that's because it has a very distinctive sound that cues mercs/ops to when to cleanse. so it really is only good for exposing the target to rail. how about attaching this effect to the immolate dot from my first wish list?

combat tech set bonus: the longer duration for carbonize makes sense with the spec's better survivability and control, and it works well for tanks who want to wear dps gear also. but buffing rocket punch for the 4pcs bonus is lame. it's just a setup abil in this spec., but I'm sure the tanks like it.

the spec doesn't need a major overhaul. I just think its abils need to work together more. as things stand now, it's exceptionally easy to prevent a fully buffed flamethrower, even when hydrolic override is active.
Krackerjack/Deinon/Antiphon
JC -- Harb -- TEH

TheOneWag's Avatar


TheOneWag
07.15.2013 , 02:32 PM | #138
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
bw, bring him to the "interrogation room"
don't electro dart me bro, don't electro dart me!!!!!

Mathemagick's Avatar


Mathemagick
07.15.2013 , 03:33 PM | #139
you guys may suck at dps but you sure are impossible to kill sometimes =[
Yamie Blind
55 Sith Sorcerer|Battlestation Sexywagon|Jedi Covenant

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
07.15.2013 , 05:44 PM | #140
Quote: Originally Posted by TheCourier- View Post
Tank vanguard isn't bad. It isn't great, but it isn't bad. Tactics spec is actually viable.
Tank vanguard is a guardian tank without the utility or cooldowns
Tactics is viable about as viable as healing mando's, it lacks burst and its dot isn't even that effective
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.