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Vanguard/Powertech Rebalancing?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Vanguard/Powertech Rebalancing?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Akuryu's Avatar

07.14.2013 , 12:31 AM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by AmberGreen View Post
This thread has been moved out of the Public Test Server Forum to allow for feedback and reports directly related to testing the Game Update 2.3 content listed in Patch Notes.

Threads created to request future updates or discuss the state of the live servers do not belong in the PTS Forum and should be created in other subforums. Thanks for your understanding!
Ya know... when I saw a Bioware post in this thread I thought maybe one of you took time out of your busy day to communicate with your fanbase on this issue. Tell us we're right and you're working on it. Tell us we're wrong and here's why.

I was wrong of course. If any of you devs ever wonder why many feel you don't listen and don't care, reread Amber's post. It's a huge middle finger to everyone who cares about this class and this game.

"oh gee wiz, let me just sweep this unsightly garbage off the forum... chunk that down to the slum forum where the poor people post. Nobody cares what they write anyway. Back to what's important: new dye colors!!!!!"

Brunner_Venda's Avatar

07.14.2013 , 12:34 AM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa;
Besides, as a general rule of thumb, melees are always ahead of ranged classes in terms of burst damage because as part of internal balancing, giving mega-bursts to ranged classes that has reliable level of defenses as well is the surest way of making an OP class -- which is exactly what happened in the past with Pyros.
Not to be a jerk here, but what defenses does a pyro powertech have? Please don't say 'heavy armor' or you'll get laughed out of this thread. Second, we are not much of a ranged class, when our best abilities are 10M or less. (Incendiary missile, thermal det, and lets not forget point blank range rocket punch and interrupt).

Have you played the spec or even looked in the tree? Sorry man, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

We get energy shield, on a 2 minute CD. The whole class gets that. Nothing else. Every other tree has a great defensive CD high up in the tree. Pyro does not have anything else to prevent or mitigate damage.

What we're asking for is a tad bit more burst. That could be another 4-5% rail damage to boost us up to 7K. It could be a higher critical hit chance working in synergy with other skills (i.e. stacking). Remember, more than half the time rail shot on pyrotecha does NOT crit, and it hits for 3K. They could skip that and fix thermal detonator, because a 12 second dot ticking for 100 damage is pointless.

The top tier skills of the pyro tree are worthless. People picking bottom tier tank and AP skills perform better in operations AND PVP. There are NO defenses in the top of our tree.

I understand some of you want to keep your classes stronger than anyone else's. I tell you that the game is more fun when there is variety to the warzones.

TonyDragonflame's Avatar

07.14.2013 , 01:09 AM | #103
Lets this class rest in peace. Do not resurrect it, its dead, like dps operative.

Dasgruberg's Avatar

07.14.2013 , 02:59 PM | #104
yoomazir = Alex Modny? would explain a lot
Maekor - 55 Juggernaut
Andrine - 55 shadow
Kintara - 55 Powertech
Zaekor - 55 Sniper

Berjiz's Avatar

07.14.2013 , 04:25 PM | #105
Maybe give VG/PTs an cd that makes the immune to knockbacks for 3-5 seconds? Unique utilty skill that fits with the whole being stable thing.

hallucigenocide's Avatar

07.14.2013 , 05:45 PM | #106
need burst or more survivability it's that simple.. just pick one and give us NOW!
i dont see why we cant have either of those now that most have both.

Brunner_Venda's Avatar

07.14.2013 , 06:17 PM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by hallucigenocide View Post
need burst or more survivability it's that simple.. just pick one and give us NOW!
i dont see why we cant have either of those now that most have both.
I'll take survivability the most.

Any match played without at least two healers is a non-stop ride on the med-center merry-go-round.

We require too much healer attention to play, and to be honest the DPS specs of our class really aren't worth it.

BlackSpin's Avatar

07.14.2013 , 07:17 PM | #108
Here's another protip: No one plays madness/balance anymore. Thank god it's only 1 of 3 options. To have a whole class compared to madness/balance... I wouldn't play that **** either (and probably why my PT is still lvl 50 out of 7 other 55's - He's currently my slicing *****)

Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
A "ranged" is a "ranged" when you are at freedom to hit someone while that someone cannot reach you, whether it be 10m or 100m. The effective range being 10m means shi* when I can dance circles around most melee classes, maintaining around 7~8m distance when he's slowed, not to mention making fools out of Force users when engaged after their Force Leap is on cooldown, and just peckering away with the basic attack alone can cut down at least 3~5k HP until the gap closes again.

Says who? You?

Who are you anyway?

(ps) Here's a pro tip from the other perspective: Vanguards/Pyros are classes very similar to Balance/Madness Shadow/Sins in principle. They have a 'hybrid' type of management where you abide by a simple rule; "close in and finish the fight fast against ranged, kite away and take the fight long against melees"

If you people are thinking that it should be doing the same thing as Mara/Sents or Sniper/Slingers -- and the class needs to be at the same pure damage output as those pure DPS classes, then you are basically clueless as to what a PT/Vanguard should be doing in combat -- in which case, I can understand why ridiculous threads like this keep appearing.

kweassa's Avatar

07.14.2013 , 08:38 PM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by BlackSpin View Post
Here's another protip: No one plays madness/balance anymore. Thank god it's only 1 of 3 options. To have a whole class compared to madness/balance... I wouldn't play that **** either (and probably why my PT is still lvl 50 out of 7 other 55's - He's currently my slicing *****)
Right, because Balance/Madness isn't as easy-mode as the other two where any ham-fisted, tactically deprived individual can still mash a few buttons and survive long enough to get the illusion that they're actually doing something.

If we define "efficiency" as "how easy it is to play, so that any newbie can grab it and still see some kind of results', then certainly Balance/Madness is not as efficient as the other two. But it is still everybit as effective as the other two, and the potential for damage is much greater than the other two as well -- since in the long term, the highest factor of deal-loss for melee classes is literally the 'time spent chasing around something'.

Balance/Madness shadow/sins are significantly boosted in their ranged DoT attacks, but unfortunately don't get to wave around the 30m range like sorc/sages. They don't get as much boost in survivability or melee attacks as well. Naturally the entire combat management revolves around in-and-out skirmishes, and especially against other powerful melees, one needs to learn how to kite with 10m ranged attacks. Is it any wonder why terribads have no clue as to how to use this spec?

Now, why am I speaking of Balance/Madness when we're talking about Pyro/Assault? Because the latter shares the exact same philosophy as the former. The reason why you people have problems with Pyro/Assault is the exact same reasons why people with lower PvP skillsets try to stay away from Balance/Madness.

There are three advanced classes that all share the same philosophy in this game, Pyro/Assault is one of them, Balance/Madness shadow/sins are the second, and the third is Scrapper/Concealment Scoundrel/Ops.

All of them have significantly higher damage capacity than the other two builds, all of them require the delicate skirmishing type of combat management, and thus all of them are significantly more difficult to play than the other two because most of its effectiveness requires the human factor at a certain level: experience, creativity, and hard practice.

It is actually a very telling fact that many people consider all of them to be gimped in some way. Simply that many people just don't get it.

Read my sig, and then think about if you really know the class well enough. Sure, you may want to think you have once known how to manage it in the ancient times where it could ROFLstomp anyone with 6k initial bursts and 4k powers following up with 0.5k dots ticking at the same time by using just two buttons, when everyone was on average 18~19k HP... but things changed.

You people are simply basking in the former glory days, and ranting the spec is gimped because it can't do what it used to do, back in the day when they were admittedly OP. How much did you really try and adapt to the new reality?
"To everything, there is a first step. The first steps in becoming better at PvP, is to acknowledge the fact that you totally suck. There's no shame in this -- even the greatest of players have been there, done that.
Stop complaining. Ask more questions. People are happy to help."

danielswann's Avatar

07.14.2013 , 08:53 PM | #110
I think you all are playing the powertechs/vanguards in the wrong way. I have been playing a vanguard for quite some time now and I feel they are one of the strongest role players in the game. I mean in a group situation having a pull+a stun every 45 secs is soooo *********** op it's crazy. On top of that you can be basically unkillable if you time your defensive cooldowns right and learn when to switch cells. I mostly play tactics in pub wz's and have no trouble topping the dps/kills charts every match. I mean a tactics vanguard has sooooo much utility and works really really well with a gunslinger or a commando dps. I think you all should relook at the way you all play this class. For one if you think about a tropper in SW lore they are not solo players. You need a group to pull out the vanguards full potential using his stuns/constant harras/spell blocks/pull. I would suggest reworking your combo's as well as I am able to do a good deal of burst with my 4 key combo. I know the flames are gonna come from this post and that is understandable when you are frusterated. Think about looking at the class as a swiss army knife and less as a katana sword and I think you will see better results. Powertechs/Vanguards are not designed for selfish play.