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Vanguard/Powertech Rebalancing?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Vanguard/Powertech Rebalancing?
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foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
07.13.2013 , 05:42 PM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
Bullshi*.

Of the four advanced classes that utilize ranged attacks as their main mode of damage, PT/Vanguards .
I literally stopped reading. their effective distance is 10m. their ideal distance is 4m for both dps specs. the tank is the rangiest of the tank ACs. do not lump PT dps in with ranged. juggs and maras have two saber throwing abils. that does not make them ranged.

and this one is going to sound mean, but pro tip: if an AC has a CLOSER as opposed to a distance maker, they aren't ranged. they don't want to be at range.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

af_raptura's Avatar


af_raptura
07.13.2013 , 05:47 PM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post

Of the four advanced classes that utilize ranged attacks as their main mode of damage, PT/Vanguards have the highest survivability and utility. .
Powertechs/Vanguards as a class that uses ranged attacks as the main mode of damage? Not sure if serious. Flame burst is the filler, and that has a range of 10 meters. It's nothing compaared to the 30-35 meter attacks of sorcs, snipers, and mercs.
- Ximena - Cintia - Flór

MarkXXIV's Avatar


MarkXXIV
07.13.2013 , 06:19 PM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
Bullshi*.

Of the four advanced classes that utilize ranged attacks as their main mode of damage, PT/Vanguards have the highest survivability and utility. Among the three other ranged classes, Sorc/Sages and Sniper/Slingers have a clear edge over PT/Vanguards in terms of pure damage, but the former is the weakest in terms of survival by fat, the latter gives up all mobility and needs to become a biological turret to do so.... and as for the rest two, Merc/Commandos have been complaining about their shaky and unstable mode of damage dealing for ages.

Among them, only the Sniper class can more or less gain 8~10k hits under right conditions, and even TK/Lightning sage/sorcs can't really do that, since their mode of damage is from continuous cycling of 4k~5k attacks.

If we bring in the other melee classes, Assasin/Shadows SOMETIMES get 8~10k hits but not as often as you might think, and the only case where anyone dishes out hits at 8k at regular intervals are Focus/Rage smash/sweepers, only available to two of the 8 advanced classes.. and being the one-trick pony is by itself an internal penalty to all of them, thriving in well performing teams, but just deadweight in even the slightest shaky teams.

Besides, as a general rule of thumb, melees are always ahead of ranged classes in terms of burst damage because as part of internal balancing, giving mega-bursts to ranged classes that has reliable level of defenses as well is the surest way of making an OP class -- which is exactly what happened in the past with Pyros.
powertech pyro survivability is not that much better than a sorcerers and is worse than pyro mercenary's. I haven't gotten my pt to 55 because of the meganerf of 2.0 but unless it does a lot more dmg than merc it is just underpowered. Powertech needs more survivability at least, I don't know the class well enough to make judgements on it's damage but I have heard(I asked a lot of people about the class because I wanted to main it) that pt pyro is just as bad as merc pyro. merc and powertech have the same armor and defensive skills but at least merc has heals and a cleanse. I compared the tree/skills of merc and powertech and they are about the same except merc is 30meter, has heals, and has a cleanse.
Mains: Hesrafow(smash): 55 Se'ziru: 55(mm/lethal)
^Only Dps worth playing,WTB Op Medic The Bastion
Zrarron 54 Sorcerer(scheduled for deletion)
Yudoda 54 Mercenary(perma shelfed) unsubbed/quitted until a fix

Azarai's Avatar


Azarai
07.13.2013 , 07:54 PM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
Among them, only the Sniper class can more or less gain 8~10k hits under right conditions, and even TK/Lightning sage/sorcs can't really do that, since their mode of damage is from continuous cycling of 4k~5k attacks.
Ummm... Not even remotely close. Ever heard of Demo round/Heatseeker Missiles? I have cause I've seen quite a few hit 10-12k to debuffed targets and have had my own face smashed in by them a few times. And TK/Lightning Sorcs easily hit Thundering Blasts with the followthrough proc for well over 9k if even remotely geared, and even without it easily hits 7k and is an auto crit. The entire Pyro spec is garbage, and if you even REMOTELY are trying to call PT's a ranged class, you may want to go back to the drawing board. I heard those rapid shots are PEW PEW deadly by dem PT's

Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
PT/Vanguards have the highest survivability and utility.
Huehuehuehuehue that's rich right there!!! Oh yes that bubble on a 2 minute CD and along with their 3 minute CD self heal that keeps them in execute range is absolutely BEAST. And let's not forget that awesome pull so they can choose which target they want to pull to them to crush them. The epitome of survivability and utility.
Lazy - Concealment Op
Watts - DPS Sorc
ProtBot - Jugg Tank

kweassa's Avatar


kweassa
07.13.2013 , 07:55 PM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
I literally stopped reading. their effective distance is 10m. their ideal distance is 4m for both dps specs. the tank is the rangiest of the tank ACs. do not lump PT dps in with ranged. juggs and maras have two saber throwing abils. that does not make them ranged.
A "ranged" is a "ranged" when you are at freedom to hit someone while that someone cannot reach you, whether it be 10m or 100m. The effective range being 10m means shi* when I can dance circles around most melee classes, maintaining around 7~8m distance when he's slowed, not to mention making fools out of Force users when engaged after their Force Leap is on cooldown, and just peckering away with the basic attack alone can cut down at least 3~5k HP until the gap closes again.

Quote:
...and this one is going to sound mean, but pro tip: if an AC has a CLOSER as opposed to a distance maker, they aren't ranged. they don't want to be at range.
Says who? You?

Who are you anyway?


(ps) Here's a pro tip from the other perspective: Vanguards/Pyros are classes very similar to Balance/Madness Shadow/Sins in principle. They have a 'hybrid' type of management where you abide by a simple rule; "close in and finish the fight fast against ranged, kite away and take the fight long against melees"

If you people are thinking that it should be doing the same thing as Mara/Sents or Sniper/Slingers -- and the class needs to be at the same pure damage output as those pure DPS classes, then you are basically clueless as to what a PT/Vanguard should be doing in combat -- in which case, I can understand why ridiculous threads like this keep appearing.
"90% of PvP complaints come from people that are thoroughly unqualified to comment about anything in the first place. Stop assuming that you are a good player, then an answer will come; why you die so often, why you are CCd so often, and why you complain about healers so often - You're simply a bad player. Harsh truth."

Aelaias's Avatar


Aelaias
07.13.2013 , 08:57 PM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
If you people are thinking that it should be doing the same thing as Mara/Sents or Sniper/Slingers -- and the class needs to be at the same pure damage output as those pure DPS classes, then you are basically clueless as to what a PT/Vanguard should be doing in combat -- in which case, I can understand why ridiculous threads like this keep appearing.
I am pretty sure you are the clueless one if you draw any parallels between balance and assault outside of dots. C'est tout.
Shadowlands
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foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
07.13.2013 , 09:43 PM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
Who are you anyway?.
the one not calling a < 10m class ranged.
Kracks and other assorted stuff on Jedi Covanent
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

Azarai's Avatar


Azarai
07.13.2013 , 10:48 PM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
Here's a pro tip from the other perspective: Vanguards/Pyros are classes very similar to Balance/Madness Shadow/Sins in principle.
You got that right, similar in the fact that nobody plays those specific specs because they suck balls
Lazy - Concealment Op
Watts - DPS Sorc
ProtBot - Jugg Tank

MarkXXIV's Avatar


MarkXXIV
07.13.2013 , 11:52 PM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
A "ranged" is a "ranged" when you are at freedom to hit someone while that someone cannot reach you, whether it be 10m or 100m. The effective range being 10m means shi* when I can dance circles around most melee classes, maintaining around 7~8m distance when he's slowed, not to mention making fools out of Force users when engaged after their Force Leap is on cooldown, and just peckering away with the basic attack alone can cut down at least 3~5k HP until the gap closes again.



Says who? You?

Who are you anyway?


(ps) Here's a pro tip from the other perspective: Vanguards/Pyros are classes very similar to Balance/Madness Shadow/Sins in principle. They have a 'hybrid' type of management where you abide by a simple rule; "close in and finish the fight fast against ranged, kite away and take the fight long against melees"

If you people are thinking that it should be doing the same thing as Mara/Sents or Sniper/Slingers -- and the class needs to be at the same pure damage output as those pure DPS classes, then you are basically clueless as to what a PT/Vanguard should be doing in combat -- in which case, I can understand why ridiculous threads like this keep appearing.
this guy just sees things differently. I disagree with him completely.
Mains: Hesrafow(smash): 55 Se'ziru: 55(mm/lethal)
^Only Dps worth playing,WTB Op Medic The Bastion
Zrarron 54 Sorcerer(scheduled for deletion)
Yudoda 54 Mercenary(perma shelfed) unsubbed/quitted until a fix

feuer's Avatar


feuer
07.14.2013 , 12:23 AM | #100
heres my feedback as an ap bh:

ho was one of our biggest strenghts, you gave it to all bhs and made other acs (way) more mobile. big. nerf.

you nerfed crit in generall, our high tier talent that increases dmg on crits has been nerfed aswell then obviously.

the new stuff isnt viable compared to other acs, the rockets are a nice idea. i think if you spam them all its our biggest burst, but they seem usefull to manage heat. they dont cost heat so you can lower heat throwing them in now and then. thats more theoretically btw, it really isnt very usefull. also, if you stay on a node, you can interrupt tappers while being stunned. after all with the cd, its comparable to a mediocre (ap-) attack on a 13 sec cd dmgwise, if you put all points in it. but taking 1% less dmg in second tier is more usefull in my opinion. still you can do dmg like a smash in 5secs, best thing we got.

the other new thing, the shield, is also quite useless. during weeks of gameplay, i noticed the proc just a few times. totally useless. a shield doing dmg like 2nd pyrotechtier or so would have been stronger. cd reduction by receiving dmg is nice, but its a second top tier talent .. just compare it.

what i really dont get is that bw said ap would not be nerfed back then. now our sustained dmg is a joke with current healers around. or compared to other dmg-acs.

and pls dont change anything, you will only make it worse.
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