Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

What PvP needs


Tragamite's Avatar


Tragamite
06.26.2013 , 10:25 PM | #1
Some things that I am noting that need to be addressed to help PvP.

Queue compositions:
Adding a queue system like PvE has where you can select the role(s) you can play and enter into WZs. This imo needs to be implemented for better balance in WZs. I believe this will help with the concepts of class balance when you have team balance. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.

X-servers queues:
It involves more people in PuGs and gives more groups in RWZ. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.

Gear Progression:
From 10-55 there should be PvP gear to work for and level with. Bring back centurion champion and battlemaster and add low level gear with expertise to help players learn how to use expertise for PvP. Bolster can still play into the stats based on level and gear rating for lower brackets. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.

WZ Specific Queues:
Choose the place you most like to play but offer a daily to play in each one and a weekly to win each. Queuing for games players enjoy would lessen fleeing and disgruntled players in the WZs. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.

Expertise Flat Rate:
Expertise gear should be flat rate regardless of the level of gear. Setting each piece to a flat rate of expertise will ease the confusion and calculations of bolster. If a level 55 has 2500 expertise on a full set of PvP gear, a level 10 should have 2500 on a full set of PvP gear. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.

PvP Leveling:
Some players only want to play PvP and do not focus on PvE play at all. One daily and One weekly mission and a thousand WZs in between is not a good way to try and level a toon. Adding more daily and weekly missions as well as a few repeatables will assist those players in leveling a toon through PvP play. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.
PvP Leveling Missions

Open World PvP:
We are given Legacy Achievements to do PvP on every world in game yet there is no format to prompt this. Planetary missions to challenge players to duel or areas that are free for all PvP areas that offer unique rewards for venturing into these areas would create the environment. Places where a player plays before the story brings about war can simply have skirmishes over land, objects or resources, while later in the story you can do your part to aid in the war effort. Not everyone who enjoys PvP plays on a PvP server with open opportunities to engage an enemy. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.

WZ Bracketing:
Currently there are 3 brackets in WZs and matches tend to be one sided because of this. Brackets should be separated by no more than 10 levels. 10-19, 20-29, 30-39, 40-49, 50-54, 55. If you added PvP armoring at every 10 levels those characters would face off in the same level of gear. i.e. level 10 gets “free” recruit gear faces off against level 19 in recruit gear. Level 20 they can then get Duelist Gear and on up. PvP gear can be best in bracket regardless of level of character or bolster effects. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.

Large Scale WZs:
PvP WZs = PvE Ops. This is true to the PvP community. Offering these on a grander scale should be implemented. PvE=/=PvP in any real sense but they can have very close similarities. If the current WZ format is viewed as a Story Mode Operation and Ranked WZs are viewed as HMs then when will we get 16 man and NiMs? Offering 16 man WZs and/or “new” maps to existing WZs with more challenges and objectives could further excite the PvP community. With this you could implement 4v4 (FPs) WZs. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.

PvP Bonuses:
Not just objectives but goals, like the bonus to a PvE mission that awards you more for achieving it in a WZ. Simple things like kill 10 players, throw the ball 8 times, download the datacore. These could be added to PvP missions (daily, weekly and repeatable, see above) as a bonus part to that mission. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.

Space PvP:
Adding the ability to freely fly your ship would be a wonderful boost to the game and using to combat your enemies would just add to the thrill. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.
WZ Ideas

Queue Solo or Teamed:
Having the ability to play as you like is what gaming is all about. If you add in a queue system that makes you choose a role you may forfeit how you want to play. Offering teams to queue as a team with another premade team against other premade teams without having to play RWZs would be a blessing to all. You can play with your friends regardless of your composition and this will alleviate premades vs PuGs debates. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.

Quitters:
The idea behind quiting stems from 2 main areas, WZ and team composition. Some people will not do some WZ, most people leave because team composition has offset the balance to give their opponants an advantage. With a loss inevitable people leave the WZ. I am not an advocate of punishment for this even though PvE has this in place. Adding many of the above options to PvP will alleviate this issue for the most part.

Viewable PvP Stats:
We can view a character, their achievements and their schematics, why not their PvP stats? I for one would love to allow other players view my PvP stats. Wins/losses, kills/deaths, dmg/heals/protection, biggest hit/heal, prot in single life, objectives achieved, MVPs, etc. Many PvPers check the group before the match starts, 1 to view gear rating and 2 to determine role. If you added the ability to see what someone has done in WZs can help others see what kind of player they are.

The more you look at what you offer and offer it to another play type, the more can be achieved in this game.

Added

PvP Social Points
PvPers play in a very social environment yet PvP does not offer social points. The way I would see this work 1 could be with the 4v4 matches with 2.4 or they could offer points from events in a match. So like healing another player gives one point capturing an objective is one point. These could be buffed by players grouping prior to a match. MVP votes could also count for social points granting 4 for placing a vote and 8-16 for receiving a vote.
Whocsllessur Jugg Tank 55, Etim'a'grt Sorc DPS 55, Ruspe-Rurob PT Tank 55, Tolan'dass Snipe DPS 55, Skęlętor Sin Tank 55 Pesch-rushi Guard Tank 55, Tragamite Scoundrel Heals 55, Slĺughter Van DPS 55, Shę-Rĺ Sage DPS 55

MrGoldsilver's Avatar


MrGoldsilver
06.26.2013 , 10:54 PM | #2
Good post... I agree with most of this stuff.. Except maybe instead of choosing a war zone to play in, you choose a war zone NOT to play in... Also a large amount of this stuff would require the multi-server WZ, or the Q times would be too high. The sad thing is that since you didn't say anything about cartel coins or unsubscribing, bioware probably won't ever read this.
Bioware: Please fix Engineering Sniper!
Toons: Mrgoldsilver, Chaf'orm'bintra, Lordhector, Naua'den, Slitheren, Zhaus, Hyaun, Dist'rak'basku, Mrsgoldsilver, Notsew, Mr-Weapons, Knighthector, Janusar, Adriondack
<WookieGroomers>-The Harbinger-

madtycoon's Avatar


madtycoon
06.27.2013 , 03:48 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Tragamite View Post
Some things that I am noting that need to be addressed to help PvP.

Queue compositions:
Adding a queue system like PvE has where you can select the role(s) you can play and enter into WZs. This imo needs to be implemented for better balance in WZs. I believe this will help with the concepts of class balance when you have team balance. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.
Ideally yeah, but WoW just tried implementing this and reverted it because it was increasing queue times (even with their monster playerbase) so that's the side effect.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tragamite View Post
X-servers queues:
It involves more people in PuGs and gives more groups in RWZ. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.
Pretty sure they would love to do this, but don't have the resources right now? Would be amazing

Quote: Originally Posted by Tragamite View Post
Gear Progression:
From 10-55 there should be PvP gear to work for and level with. Bring back centurion champion and battlemaster and add low level gear with expertise to help players learn how to use expertise for PvP. Bolster can still play into the stats based on level and gear rating for lower brackets. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.
They should make the pvp damage reduction from expertise baseline on all naked characters and have gear cap in warzones/duels/pvp flag to a certain item level or whatever just like WoW does now. This way players could get PvE gear/stuff off the AH to initially gear up and they wouldn't really need bolster, but PvP gear would still be better for PvP because of set bonuses and added healing/damage from expertise.

But any kind of change, based on history, would take several months to even attempt to get fixed (like bolster), so they should probably just keep tweaking with the bolster system.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tragamite View Post
WZ Specific Queues:
Choose the place you most like to play but offer a daily to play in each one and a weekly to win each. Queuing for games players enjoy would lessen fleeing and disgruntled players in the WZs. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.
Would be nice if you could choose your warzone, but it would increase queue times. Don't know if the game has enough of a playerbase on even the heavy trafficked pvp servers. The extra dailies/weeklies would be nice though.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tragamite View Post
Expertise Flat Rate:
Expertise gear should be flat rate regardless of the level of gear. Setting each piece to a flat rate of expertise will ease the confusion and calculations of bolster. If a level 55 has 2500 expertise on a full set of PvP gear, a level 10 should have 2500 on a full set of PvP gear. Adding this will address other lacking areas in PvP.
would be a good idea

Not commenting on the world pvp stuff. I think world pvp is pretty horrible however you design/encourage it. The space missions would be great, but that would require a lot of resources that I don't think they are willing to put in this game.

xeikonburns's Avatar


xeikonburns
06.27.2013 , 08:51 AM | #4
Great thread, i completely agree with most of those points !

Especially adding more PvP dailies oder weeklys would make leveling through PvP so much easier

Sad thing is several points on your list, like the breakup of the current brackets into new ones etc., would require BW to enable cross-server queing which they sadly clearly stated as not ever beeing implemented during the last cantina event.
Meister Roizan | Meister Shian'za | Major Dharane | Captain Syranio
Darth Xeikon | CdgJ Ozario | Agent Jarican | Ryozan

Gildenleiter von Finally Fixed - www.finally-fixed.de - T3-M4
REKRUTIERUNG OFFEN

Tragamite's Avatar


Tragamite
06.27.2013 , 07:12 PM | #5
This is what I see with all these things being implemented...

Queue Compositions: Just like with PvE a person could select 2 roles they could fill this allows DPS to take Tank or Healer slots during low periods. Most DPS spot heal rutinely and taunt enough to satisfy this Idea. While we may think this will contiue the broken cycle of PvP queues, someone who has no intention of healing or tanking just like in PvE should select DPS as their role. It will balance WZs so much more then they are now reguardless.

X-server queues: This allows for more people overall to be in the queues and therefore roles will be met more frequently maintaining queue times, even speeding them up in some cases.

Gear progression: When worked with bracketing and expertise flat rate this becomes a no brainer! As you progress in PvP you gear yourself for it. You can buy a set as you level to keep your expertise maxxed with your other stats.

WZ specific queues: This will aid some with quitters as well as stop the repeated WZ queues even though they are "random." I hate when I get AHG 4 times in a row! At first it may slow queues a bit but with leveling missions, bonus missions and with limited WZ options I feel MOST PvPers will just select all and go with a random WZ as it pops.

Expertise flat rate: I feel this is important. 2500 should be max PvP gear. PvE gear gets to keep its Bolster but based on a flat rate it should not be greater than 70% of PvP gears expertise. This will set the numbers. PvP gear can then focus on "Primary" stats and not have to adjust the Expertise with gear progression. Bolster then affects primary stats to the highest level of the bracket. So that a Level 10 with PvP gear has base stats = to a level 19 and expertise at 2500. A level 19 in the same WZ has PvE gear on. Bolster would not affect base stats and would give them 1750 expertise (70% of 2500) So would it be at level 55.

PVP Leveling: This is for the PvPers! You can PvP all day and progress how you want to. You don't need to worry about anything other than your skills in combat.

Open World PVP: Not everyone plays on a PvP server but those not on a PvP server have opted not to openly egage in PvP. Open World PvP areas are like Ilum and Tattooine where if you go into the area you are consenting to PvP. With these areas though are missions to be achieved in the area. Like with the Gree event there should be tasks that you need to accomplish in the area while dealing with opposing forces. I do not feel these should ALL be Free For All (FFA) PvP areas though.

Bracketing: With X-Server and Composition this allows for better bracketing of the matches. Some brackets may be slow at times but what this does is allows you to be more efficient in the bracket. A level 10 has much fewer abilities than a level 29. They have 19 fewer points allotted to their specialty (Tree.) This is why bracketing needs to be as close as possible to the levels. Gear progression accomidates this further allowing everyone access to expertise.

Large Scale WZs: With Compositions in place and X-Sever populations it seems quite possible to allow larger groups to face off in larger scale WZs.

PvP bonuses: More than medals, these should be tied to playing in PvP. Like with the Achievements Killing X Jugs in WZs, Killing X Imperials reguardless of faction. Maybe even earning 12+ medals in a single WZ. Maybe making 10+ Killing Blows. Something that adds to doing WZs rather then just running in aimlessly trying to earn badges for gear that really doesn't help you against PvE because of the Bolster bugs.

Space PvP: A change of pace to the grind on the ground. Allow for PvP gear for your ship to face off against other players. Free flowing play just like on the ground only you get to fly around in your ship and cause some damage!

Queue solo vs team: Unlike the current queue system this is about friends playing together, or guilds causually playing PvP. Solo queues face off against others using the composition WZ group finder while Team queues disregard the composistion and find other teams to be grouped with. Groups can still queue using the composistion group finder by selecting one role withing the group and queueing. This allows the composistion to be maintained when matched with solo players.

Quitters: Compsistion Group Finder, WZ selection, PvP missions, Flatrate Expertise, Bracketing and Gear Progression will all aid to alieviate players from simply dropping group to be part of a winning match rather than loose. Even if you loose the match you can still achive objectives, bonuses and missions to earn your medals for new gear at the next level.

Viewable PvP stats: I understand some elitists out there will flame new characters with few or no stats. Others will ask about player experience in PvP. Seeing stats allows for better team awareness in that having a new player in the WZ you ccan coach them as to how to maximize themselves in the WZ. Someone new seeing someone with great stats might want to follow them around to see how they achive those stats.

While we will never make everyone 100% happy we can achieve more for the hardcore PvPer to the Casual player experimenting with PvP and not being utterly destroyed and being turned away for lack of experience.
Whocsllessur Jugg Tank 55, Etim'a'grt Sorc DPS 55, Ruspe-Rurob PT Tank 55, Tolan'dass Snipe DPS 55, Skęlętor Sin Tank 55 Pesch-rushi Guard Tank 55, Tragamite Scoundrel Heals 55, Slĺughter Van DPS 55, Shę-Rĺ Sage DPS 55

kweassa's Avatar


kweassa
06.27.2013 , 10:16 PM | #6
IMO, the single largest factor of PvP SWTOR needs, is large-scale, scenario-typed WZs.

There are so many great, "historic" battles to be played out, and given the fact that this is a part of the Star Wars franchise, large-scale 're-enactment' WZs is something that has great potential to draw in a lot of people.

If we compare this to a WW2 themed game, what we have is the equivalent of a small "skirmish" between small band of troops. It's fun no doubt, but people who play WW2 themed games are also very likely history buffs. If they had the chance to play an enlarged scale of combat that stands true to the WW2 theme... like Operation Barbarossa, Bagration, Marianas Turkey Shoot, Battle of the Bulge, etc etc.. they'd do anything to be a part of it.

There are so many great themse to be used. Starting from the Battle of Coruscant, a large-scale, city-warfare themed combat.. maybe something like the Imperials will attempt to take control of multiple city blocks around the Jedi Temple, while Republic Forces will try to hold the lines and repel attacks... then it could proceed to each of the planetary themes, like the Battle of Alderaan (the theme used for the cinematic "Hope").. and etc etc..

Every Star Wars fan remembers the Clone Wars, and how there were spectacular field battles. Maybe there could be mounts, like walkers to be used by the players.... so many possibilities..

..and yet, none of them are captialized upon. That's so disappointing.
"90% of PvP complaints come from people that are thoroughly unqualified to comment about anything in the first place. Stop assuming that you are a good player, then an answer will come; why you die so often, why you are CCd so often, and why you complain about healers so often - You're simply a bad player. Harsh truth."

sponym's Avatar


sponym
06.28.2013 , 12:35 AM | #7
i agree, you have my vote!

DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
06.28.2013 , 01:06 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
IMO, the single largest factor of PvP SWTOR needs, is large-scale, scenario-typed WZs.

There are so many great, "historic" battles to be played out, and given the fact that this is a part of the Star Wars franchise, large-scale 're-enactment' WZs is something that has great potential to draw in a lot of people.

If we compare this to a WW2 themed game, what we have is the equivalent of a small "skirmish" between small band of troops. It's fun no doubt, but people who play WW2 themed games are also very likely history buffs. If they had the chance to play an enlarged scale of combat that stands true to the WW2 theme... like Operation Barbarossa, Bagration, Marianas Turkey Shoot, Battle of the Bulge, etc etc.. they'd do anything to be a part of it.

There are so many great themse to be used. Starting from the Battle of Coruscant, a large-scale, city-warfare themed combat.. maybe something like the Imperials will attempt to take control of multiple city blocks around the Jedi Temple, while Republic Forces will try to hold the lines and repel attacks... then it could proceed to each of the planetary themes, like the Battle of Alderaan (the theme used for the cinematic "Hope").. and etc etc..

Every Star Wars fan remembers the Clone Wars, and how there were spectacular field battles. Maybe there could be mounts, like walkers to be used by the players.... so many possibilities..

..and yet, none of them are captialized upon. That's so disappointing.
While a good idea, and one that I would support, the Hero engine apparently has a very hard time coping with large numbers of players going at it.

If I remember right, it was BW themselves that said 8v8 was the most that it could comfortably manage without starting to see performances suffer because of lag.

The most I have seen going at it was about 20v20 in the Blackhole one day and that fight was nearly unplayable because of the frame rate.

Tragamite's Avatar


Tragamite
06.28.2013 , 11:03 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by DariusCalera View Post
While a good idea, and one that I would support, the Hero engine apparently has a very hard time coping with large numbers of players going at it.

If I remember right, it was BW themselves that said 8v8 was the most that it could comfortably manage without starting to see performances suffer because of lag.

The most I have seen going at it was about 20v20 in the Blackhole one day and that fight was nearly unplayable because of the frame rate.
This is the glowing issue right now. I am not sure if it is possible but what if they had "servers for PvP." most things in this game are instanced but what if you could open a server to host PvP? This game launched with like 36 servers and has been condensed to like 9 for the U? Could they "server swap" players to do PvP with xserver queues this would IMO reduce the stress on the server due to population.
Whocsllessur Jugg Tank 55, Etim'a'grt Sorc DPS 55, Ruspe-Rurob PT Tank 55, Tolan'dass Snipe DPS 55, Skęlętor Sin Tank 55 Pesch-rushi Guard Tank 55, Tragamite Scoundrel Heals 55, Slĺughter Van DPS 55, Shę-Rĺ Sage DPS 55

Tragamite's Avatar


Tragamite
07.16.2013 , 03:10 PM | #10
With the "tease" of 2.4 I feel this needs to be revisited
Whocsllessur Jugg Tank 55, Etim'a'grt Sorc DPS 55, Ruspe-Rurob PT Tank 55, Tolan'dass Snipe DPS 55, Skęlętor Sin Tank 55 Pesch-rushi Guard Tank 55, Tragamite Scoundrel Heals 55, Slĺughter Van DPS 55, Shę-Rĺ Sage DPS 55