I am curious as to whether or not any PVP DPS scoundrels have made a switch from scrapper to DF, post crit-nerf. I rolled a scoundrel to lolcrit in the scrapper tree pre 2.0, and since RoTHC have found it to be, even with the alacrity buff, not capable of putting out the burst needed to reliably drop anybody. The only downside i've found with DF is the build time required to get to your burst phase. I know that there are some die hard scrapper cats out there who are clinging to the hope that Bioware will fix the AC for DPS but until that happens, it's a broken tree IMO (especially with the energy management troubles scrappers now have due their lack of semi-guaranteed auto-crit burst opener) . Given this, I've come to the conclusion that rolling a scrapper gives you terrible energy management, making it difficult to drop any decent player with good defensive CD's, and gives you unreliable burst (considering peels, heals and guards and lower crit). DF gives you range, healer pressure (albeit softer than other AC's), same off-heals, greater burst potential, but a crappy build phase before you can get there. Is there any reason to even attempt to roll a scrapper at this point? Your thoughts?

 

I'm not interested in healing btw, this is not a thread to discuss "why don't you go roflhealroll...," It's here for the DPS scoundrels' input

No offense but sounds like l2p issue. I feel very capable in my ability to drop people ATM and I'm in terrible gear lol

I can easily take most classes (except mid tree shadows) down to at least 20-30% by myself and, assuming it's 1v1 or at least 2v1, kill them with little to no effort (depending on a player ofc). And mind you, I ain't even DPS geared, I respec scrapper like twice a week for ***** and giggles.

 

That being said, while DF is absolutely capable of producing big numbers for you to hide behind, it's not effective spec actually. It isn't, really isn't. Especially when it comes to putting pressure on healers.

Edited June 19, 2013 by BenitsubasaChiyo

...And mind you, I ain't even DPS geared, I respec scrapper like twice a week for ***** and giggles.

 

 

The difference in gearing between a scoundrel healer and dps is almost effectively zero in stats, especially if you play scrapper where accuracy isn't even really needed (QS is the only attack you use with any freqeuncy that would benefit from a little more accuracy outside of what you pick up in the skill tree). The main difference in gear is set bonuses, and while they help aren't going to make a huge difference one way or the other.

 

...

 

That being said, while DF is absolutely capable of producing big numbers for you to hide behind, it's not effective spec actually. It isn't, really isn't. Especially when it comes to putting pressure on healers.

 

Rubbish.

 

DF is a great spec, and is capable of better burst and better sustained DPS on a ST than scrapper is, although the burst is in a different format (back loaded). I made a post about DF in a very new thread only days ago, please see my post in the thread below, to save me repeating myself.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=651433

 

On my scoundrel when healing, i honestly laugh irl when i get jumped by a scrapper. DF brings more pressure, that is for certain. The trick is for someone specced DF to wait until you to activate your dodge before applying/reapplying dots and bursting.

The trick is for someone specced DF to wait until you to activate your dodge before applying/reapplying dots and bursting.

 

That can technically be said about any dps focusing a healer.

 

Actually in that instance you portray, I'd say the same applies to scrapper and requires more skill on their part to time their attacks so it works more in their favor.

 

The whole truth in all of this is:

 

1. DF has higher single target dps than scrapper: it's only in the low hundreds of dps on a dummy, so technically it is higher, but anyone claiming scrapper is way lower is either DF biased or just trolling

2. DF has more mobility an a free HoT (it is only a 30% chance though)

3. Crit nerf effects both specs, but DF has lower crit amounts snd good DoT damage while scrapper has higher crits and lower (but still decent) FR DoT damage

 

DF is likely the better spec for group support or node guarding (I'd still go with DF/medic hybrid for guarding) while scrapper is likely the better for solo node stealing and single target (I.e. healer) focusing.

 

The class as a dps has crap survivability, that is always a factor. But to say scrapper can't put out pressure on a healer is incorrect. A bad scrapper, yeah they're out there and a bad shadow can put out way better numbers. But a scrapper who knows how to fight and gear is another story.

 

Last night alone I was hitting for 7.9k on SF, 7.5k on BB, 7.4k on Sab Charge, and 6.1k on Sucker Punch. Those were obviously the highs, not averages, but those numbers are really high for a scrapper and strung together do nasty damage.

 

Not trying to fuel a fire, just trying to get ppl to keep an open mind. Play what you like to play.

DF is easily one of the highest DPS (if not the highest) in PvP. They can pummel out damage like nobody's business. That being said, they are super squishy. Scrapper isn't the best vs decent geared players nowadays, that doesn't mean to say it's not fun beating the hell out of light armour classes

And it should be, with Shrap Bomb at 10 energy with no cooldown.

 

But it's the single target damage that matters. Most of the damage that is ticking on multiple targets with Shrap Bomb can easily be healed with a single Kolto Cloud.

That can technically be said about any dps focusing a healer.

 

Actually in that instance you portray, I'd say the same applies to scrapper and requires more skill on their part to time their attacks so it works more in their favor.

 

The whole truth in all of this is:

 

1. DF has higher single target dps than scrapper: it's only in the low hundreds of dps on a dummy, so technically it is higher, but anyone claiming scrapper is way lower is either DF biased or just trolling

2. DF has more mobility an a free HoT (it is only a 30% chance though)

3. Crit nerf effects both specs, but DF has lower crit amounts snd good DoT damage while scrapper has higher crits and lower (but still decent) FR DoT damage

 

DF is likely the better spec for group support or node guarding (I'd still go with DF/medic hybrid for guarding) while scrapper is likely the better for solo node stealing and single target (I.e. healer) focusing.

 

The class as a dps has crap survivability, that is always a factor. But to say scrapper can't put out pressure on a healer is incorrect. A bad scrapper, yeah they're out there and a bad shadow can put out way better numbers. But a scrapper who knows how to fight and gear is another story.

 

Last night alone I was hitting for 7.9k on SF, 7.5k on BB, 7.4k on Sab Charge, and 6.1k on Sucker Punch. Those were obviously the highs, not averages, but those numbers are really high for a scrapper and strung together do nasty damage.

 

Not trying to fuel a fire, just trying to get ppl to keep an open mind. Play what you like to play.

 

Sorry, what i meant to say was "The trick is for someone specced DF to wait until they activate their dodge before applying/reapplying dots and bursting.".

 

You are right in that i also believe scrapper takes more skill to use effectively. However, it is my personal feeling that you must work alot harder to acheive the same or slightly less results than dirty fighting. Hence, a skilled player can do more with a DF spec than scrapper. This is just my opinion. I may have been a little emotional in writing my response above, it just really annoys me when clueless people say it's an useless / ineffective spec. As i am sure it annoys you when people say the same above scrappers

 

My post wasn't meant to be negative about scrappers, but positive about DF.

 

On a few of your points:

 

1.) Taking the best scrapper to best DF ST dps, 2700 to 3100, DF comes out about 13% ahead. It's not alot, but, that is single target and it also is in ideal pve circumstances. Everyone knows that the application of damage in pvp is different. And i feel that this is where scrappers have to work harder, because of their positional requirement on BB. In DF getting a BB off is nice, and you should always try to use it on cd, but if someone is denying you their back, its no big deal.

 

I dont disagree on your points 2 and 3.

 

I also agree on scrapper being better for node stealing. DF setup time takes too long and makes it easy for them to call and have re-enforcements arrive before you can take them out.

 

I respectfully disagree on scrapper being better for single target focusing. I honestly and truely believe that DF has the edge there, especially if the target has a gaurd on them. I believe that DF has easier to apply dps with better sustained and at least the same burst dps. Just my opinion though, happy to discuss that with anyone but not worth starting a forum war over it lol.

 

DF will never show big hits at the end of the game, as the wounding shots portion of the attack is split into parts. Even if all three parts hit simultanously for 2.5 - 3k each, it wont show up as a 7.5 - 9k hit.

 

Anyway as i said, just didnt want people reading this to think that DF was ineffective or useless. Both specs have their places, and are both quite fun.

 

You said it quite well, so i will say the same. In most pvp situations, both specs are viable. So, play what you want to play.

Dude, you didn't have to explain yourself like that. I wasn't attacking you or anything, it was actually a way for me to provide scrapper information for DFers who probably aren't used to seeing what kind of damage the spec does currently.

 

I fully respect your opinion and think you did an admirable job of explaining in the other thread. Sorry if it came across differently, my post was meant to be for the general viewer.

 

And don't worry, sometimes I post dumb things after I've gotten stomped by premades while solo-queueing all night long. You're cool in my book, don't sweat it.