Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Macros for pvp, respecing, grabbing huttballs. Legal?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Macros for pvp, respecing, grabbing huttballs. Legal?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Capt_Beers's Avatar


Capt_Beers
06.19.2013 , 12:26 PM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by funkiestj View Post
If I ever implement my respec macro it will include swapping gear, changing stance and fixing the quickbar. If I can write a macro to click out a spec in a skill tree I can surely do all the other things. The whole point is to change spec (and everything associated with it) quickly.

Respeccing more than once during an active WZ is probably uncommon. I agree that the advantage a quick respec macro gives is probably small.
That could certainly be done but it would a high susceptibility to errors. If something wasn't in the same slot as before the wrong abilities would get moved around. Especially with gear. Probably not an issue for peopel who keep their bags organized but it could get weird for people who mess that up.

Quote: Originally Posted by funkiestj View Post
In a huttball discussion thread, one RWZ player mentioned that his team has 1 of their 2 snipers respec marksman (for diversion) if and only if they see they are facing a particular team. In theory they might want to respec MM against another team if the other team started using the tactic they use MM to counter.

a quick respec in WZ in response to what you see from your opponent certainly has some value. This value depends on your ability to play multiple specs well and to recognize when a spec change would help.
I wouldn't debate that it has value. However I can respec my Commando from heals to DPS fairly quickly. All in all for a macro respec we are talking a difference of maybe 10 seconds for a full gear/quickbar/spec change (I have things setup so I know where the abilities I get in the trees will end up). So if it's coming down to that player being busy respeccing for 10 seconds agian your strategy might need some work.

However what happens to CD's in between respecs could be a problem. For instance in your Sniper MM example, diversion has a 1 min CD. What happens if you use it, wipe the team or get LoS so you can use your macro respec in safety, and respec right back into MM. Technically during your respec you forgot Diversion and relearned it, So does the CD get reset?
<HVND> <MALEVOLENT>
Keef-Stone 60 Serenity | | Keets-Stone 60 Seer | | Keith-Stone 60 Combat Medic | | Keeth-Stone 60 Vigilance
Keet-Stone 55 Focus | | CaptBeers 60 Arsenal | | Kee'th 60 Pyrotech | | FOTM-Reroll 55 Tactics

funkiestj's Avatar


funkiestj
06.19.2013 , 03:15 PM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by Capt_Beers View Post
However what happens to CD's in between respecs could be a problem. For instance in your Sniper MM example, diversion has a 1 min CD. What happens if you use it, wipe the team or get LoS so you can use your macro respec in safety, and respec right back into MM. Technically during your respec you forgot Diversion and relearned it, So does the CD get reset?
Clearly using respec to bypass a cooldown (if this works) is an exploit. Alas, that is a problem for BW.

Mr. Hat says "BW support is the best"!
I am a bad player, so what?

bsbrad's Avatar


bsbrad
06.19.2013 , 03:56 PM | #83
As mentioned before if BW wants to solve this issue, the logical thing is to not allow field respecs once the WZ has started.

Personally I dont think field respeccing should be allowed at all in a PVP environment as some classes gain a lot more from respeccing than others (i.e. heals->dps) but I know a lot of people who rely on this feature, esp in maps like Voidstar where they turtle (dps->tanks, dps->heals) on defense and then switch back to dps when attacking. This is a major advantage over the 2 AC's (Snipers and Maras) that cannot switch. Have you ever tried to cap a door in voidstar with 4 healers and 2 tanks, not my definition of fun and then when it is their turn to attack the 2 tanks switch to DPS and 2 of the healers switch to DPS.

Also field respeccing can create imbalances like, operative healers dot their entire team, drop out of combat, use macro to respec and then act as DPS while there dots are still working as heal spec'd.
N'abi
Begeren Colony
The answer is easy the question is not....oh who am I kidding!!!.

funkiestj's Avatar


funkiestj
06.19.2013 , 04:32 PM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
If these people are not punished, that's mostly because they have to be reported, and what kind of proof or clue do we have to suspect people from using illegal means ? There is hardly some, and we can't start to report all people who respec just in case they macro'ed.

That's why you're true saying that they should take measures to avoid doubts and having trouble with the rule enforcing. Disabling respeccing during a WZ is probably the only avaliable way.
Exactly. A rule that is impossible (or very very hard) to enforce is a bad rule.

The ideal we strive for is not "report people for exploiting" but rather "there are no exploits". Sure, the perfect ideal of no exploits is not practical but it is what we should be aiming for.

either of
  • allowing respec macros
  • prohibiting respec after WZ playing field has been entered (i.e. the game blocks respec in this case)
satisfy the ideal.

Mr. Hat says "BW support is the best"!
I am a bad player, so what?

mulzii's Avatar


mulzii
06.19.2013 , 06:51 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by funkiestj View Post
Exactly. A rule that is impossible (or very very hard) to enforce is a bad rule.

The ideal we strive for is not "report people for exploiting" but rather "there are no exploits". Sure, the perfect ideal of no exploits is not practical but it is what we should be aiming for.

either of
  • allowing respec macros
  • prohibiting respec after WZ playing field has been entered (i.e. the game blocks respec in this case)
satisfy the ideal.
all they need to do is just put a delay when respecing and drop all buffs/stances/stealth/healing dots, etc (but not debuffs) while in this delay. Make the delay 10-15 seconds or more. And if someone takes damage while in this delay, the respec immediately fails. boom, case closed. people can still respec at the rez point at the start (or if they die), and crafty ones can respec while in the zone if they find a safe place where no one is looking for them or comes across them.

If they want to get nasty about it, make the respec that all but 1% of their total health as well. That with the removal of the buffs and the delay, should remove in-combat 1-sec-macro-respecing idiots...

Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
06.19.2013 , 07:01 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by BambulaGTS View Post
How to make quick respec macro. You probably won't do it with mouse/hardware macro firmware because they do not allow macroing mouse cursor position on coordinates. Need 3rd party programm, example: autohotkey.
Actually Autohotkey does not work with SWtoR. This is the evidence pointing to macros using mouse cursor location and screen output detection as being illegal. 95+% of such macro programs do not work in SWtoR. SWtoR specifically detects them and locks them out. A very select few macro programs are patched after SWtoR patches to allow them to circumvent SWtoR's macro detection protocols. This is a cat and mouse game between SWtoR and the macro programs. Activity which implicitly shows that such programs are intended to be illegal.

Crawelc's Avatar


Crawelc
06.19.2013 , 07:12 PM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
Actually Autohotkey does not work with SWtoR. This is the evidence pointing to macros using mouse cursor location and screen output detection as being illegal. 95+% of such macro programs do not work in SWtoR. SWtoR specifically detects them and locks them out. A very select few macro programs are patched after SWtoR patches to allow them to circumvent SWtoR's macro detection protocols. This is a cat and mouse game between SWtoR and the macro programs. Activity when implicitly shows that such programs are intended to be illegal.
It works just fine lmao. There are at least 3 other programs that do as well.

Edit: Macro detection protocols LMAO, the only time a pixel reader program has problems running with this game is when they change up the thumbnails for the buffs.
Imprimis <Fight><Redemption><Conquest><Super Bads><Murica Force><The Cream><RSU>
All Imprimis All the time.
GM of 3 dead guilds and counting.

Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
06.19.2013 , 07:19 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by Crawelc View Post
It works just fine lmao. There are at least 3 other programs that do as well.
If it works fine now, then that is a change. It did not as late as 6 months after SWtoR came out.

PoliteAssasin's Avatar


PoliteAssasin
06.20.2013 , 04:25 AM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by LaVall View Post
Ugh, I know how you feel, Neo. You can get the first goal or two against them and then never get the ball again no matter how much you outnumber them at mid. Just 3 or 4 of them can decimate an excellent team that doesn't cheat. They're are all very good players that have no need to cheat, especially in regs. I lost a lot of respect for them over the matter.
Pretty much yeah. Being able to speed up the click its pretty much impossible to beat those players especially if you don't do a good job of locking them down, which can be difficult with CC immunity abilities.

Quote: Originally Posted by stringcat View Post
Can you explain how it could possibly affect the outcome of a huttball match that a player spends 7 seconds respeccing before the match begins rather than 15 seconds?
Oh please, just stop. You know very well that isn't the issue we're discussing. Respeccing at the beginning of a match is not the same as doing it mid match in 3-4 seconds with the push of 1 button. And the issue with huttball is speed clickers able to grab the ball every time no matter how many others are spamming for it legitimately.

Quote: Originally Posted by MiaRB View Post
the rules are not vague. its simple, using a macro to automate something to give yourself an advantage is not allowed. using a macro to respec before a WZ starts is not the same as recpecing multiple times during a WZ because your cheater macro can do it in a few seconds.
Basically this.

Quote: Originally Posted by Crawelc View Post
60 clicks per second. Nuff said. I was talking to a buddy that recently came back to the game and said I have cyclone slash on 6 on my naga, he just casually said oh that is my 60 click per second button for getting the huttball. Like no big deal man.
Exactly what screws over huttball.


Would love a developer response on this if at all possible.
Manager of Basic Skills For A Better Society. We hand out <basic skill stim>s in PVP to those in need. A donation of 1000 credits can help maintain the basic skills of 10 players for a day. Thousands of Republic PVPers are in dire need of these stims. Head to your local Pub Fleet and donate now!

stringcat's Avatar


stringcat
06.20.2013 , 10:19 AM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliteAssasin View Post
Pretty much yeah. Being able to speed up the click its pretty much impossible to beat those players especially if you don't do a good job of locking them down, which can be difficult with CC immunity abilities.

Oh please, just stop. You know very well that isn't the issue we're discussing. Respeccing at the beginning of a match is not the same as doing it mid match in 3-4 seconds with the push of 1 button. And the issue with huttball is speed clickers able to grab the ball every time no matter how many others are spamming for it legitimately.
.
No one uses huttball speedclickers --- except possibly you, given your history with projection. If you let it get to a click-off, people with lower ping always win. (Which is why, as a 100ms ping player, I try not to let that happen.) If you're struggling to pick up the ball, though, I suggest that your first priority should learning to position yourself at mid when the ball spawns --- I never see you there. Gotta learn to let go of the scores you can't prevent.
Valiya Illegal Test Kitchen The Bastion