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Macros for pvp, respecing, grabbing huttballs. Legal?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Macros for pvp, respecing, grabbing huttballs. Legal?
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AbsolutGrndZero's Avatar


AbsolutGrndZero
01.10.2014 , 10:06 AM | #371
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
No, they really can't.

What programs people run on their computer is none of their business unless it meets one of the two criteria:

1. Modifies the Client.
2. Inputs into the Client.
Yeah, tell that to the company that made the game (Painbringer I think that was the name of the game, something like that). If you had software able to copy a DVD installed on your computer, even a trial or even if you uninstalled it (most programs don't fully uninstall intentionally to avoid you just uninstalling it then reinstalling the trial again when it runs out) and regardless if you would use it to illegally copy the game, their install program would just close, no warning or anything. The game just refused to install. No warning on the box or anything. While I never bought the game, I read about it in a Computer Gaming magazine, was an editorial about it because after talking to them for hours trying to figure out why it wouldn't install, they finally figured out that was the reason was that he once had a DVD Copy software installed on the computer and hadn't done a full drive format (or less sweeping but harder, figure out what files were left and manually delete them, which is very difficult because few companies name their files to keep you from just reinstalling their trials easily) to get rid of it entirely.
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LordGermanicuss's Avatar


LordGermanicuss
02.21.2014 , 04:25 PM | #372
Sorry man, I gotta call bs on this......flat out it happens DAILY that I see ppl using very obvious macros and have found that reporting them does about as much good as reporting someone using an aimbot on Call of Duty. You, like them, put out this message that is meant to intimidate many into not cheating. It works on the good guys and ZERO of the hard core cheaters b/c they know you're bluffing. What's sad is that even the most obvious macros aren't caught at all, /spit, /laugh etc in the middle of a solo fight are quite obvious, yet your supposed "detection methods" don't catch them whatsoever. As someone else mentioned, the "inc snow" etc macros can be the only way a pug team could possibly situationally compete with a pre-made using voice like MANY do. Many of these problems would be solved by simply disallowing pre-mades on pvE servers. There's no reason for them to go to pvp servers the way it is and why would they when they can beat up on pvE players trying to dip their feet in and have a little fun.....the pvE players instead get owned by polished pvp pros hanging out on a pvE server running voice(vent, skype, etc) in their pre-made. This is a very obvious problem one can extrapolate from only a few weeks of pvP play. What good does banning macros do when you allow voice using pre-mades to face pugs?? Nothing, it encourages hardcore pvP'es to hide out on pvE servers where they'll face no real competition.


Quote: Originally Posted by Phillip_BW View Post

So a number of people have asked about text macros. A couple of others (even on reddit!) have mentioned 'colour detection to determine which action to take' systems. I even saw a questions about sequence clicking... I even saw claims that we can't detect anything and won't do a thing about this issue.

I'll address all four...

Text Macros
Strictly speaking, text macro's are against the ToS. If its for emotes etc and isn't being used as a way to advise others of an impending attack in a Warzone (inc snow! for example), then we will turn a blind eye to an extent. If you fire off emotes too many times in quick succession of course then you will get evaluated for if you are spamming.

One click 'enter chat, type 'inc snow!', hit enter' text macros designed to warn others is completely against the ToS. You need to make a decision - do I take the time to type 'inc snow' to the ops group, or do I just keep fighting this person... Think of it as an evaluation on if you are using a tool that gives you an unfair advantage over somebody not using that same tool.

Colour detection and evaluated action macros
The very act of determining a colour of a pixel on screen and as a result then using a specific action is one of the easy to understand examples of what we call automation. As soon as you have two things happening based on one key press, then its against the ToS.

Sequence clicking
If you have a system set up so that if you hit the same key 4 times likes so: '1, 1, 1, 1' and instead of just firing off whatever 1 is bound to it fires off '1, 2, 3, 4', then as long as you keep it to 'one key == one other key hit' its in that grey area of not true automation. There is a caveat - you can't have the macro determine a minimum time between clicks to work around the global cool down timing and only fire the next button in sequence if the GCD has expired.

If you instead have a system that when you hit 1, it fires of 1, 2, 3, 4 in quick succession or all at once (i.e. one click == many actions) in order to try and fire something that isn't currently in a cool down state then yes, that is against the ToS. Again, one click must always equal one action and only one action within the game.

Detection of abuse
There are many claims based on guesswork that we can't tell when a person is running automation for systems like field respeccing within seconds. Every time you interact with the server we log either the specific event or an aggregate of similar events firing multiple times. We can (and do!) look through those logs using analytic engines. If you want to know more about the concept, look up 'big data' in google - we strive to make all decisions on making changes to the game based on the data we have, and we have a lot of data.

We also use that data for game forensics - we may not react in a real-time manner for most things, but as people foolish enough to speedhack know, we can and do act based on irrefutable data.

Now, all that said, what are we going to be doing going forwards now that this issue is very much in the limelight?

Expect changes to the ability to field respec in Warzones. We were already working on this as part of some upcoming PvP updates (Bruce detailed some of that this week I believe), and we may bring the field respec changes forward - or we may just keep them where they are so to not impact the game update schedules and instead update our existing Warzone game forensic reporting to include inhumanly fast field respec events. Either way my advise if you are currently macroing within Warzones is to stop.

JaingSkiratapwns's Avatar


JaingSkiratapwns
02.21.2014 , 04:28 PM | #373
Old thread is old.

LordGermanicuss's Avatar


LordGermanicuss
02.21.2014 , 04:31 PM | #374
Quote: Originally Posted by JaingSkiratapwns View Post
Old thread is old.
Still VERY relevant....except to those who want to maintain the very bogus status quo....

Puissant's Avatar


Puissant
02.21.2014 , 04:33 PM | #375
Quote: Originally Posted by LordGermanicuss View Post
Sorry man, I gotta call bs on this......flat out it happens DAILY that I see ppl using very obvious macros and have found that reporting them does about as much good as reporting someone using an aimbot on Call of Duty. You, like them, put out this message that is meant to intimidate many into not cheating. It works on the good guys and ZERO of the hard core cheaters b/c they know you're bluffing. What's sad is that even the most obvious macros aren't caught at all, /spit, /laugh etc in the middle of a solo fight are quite obvious, yet your supposed "detection methods" don't catch them whatsoever. As someone else mentioned, the "inc snow" etc macros can be the only way a pug team could possibly situationally compete with a pre-made using voice like MANY do. Many of these problems would be solved by simply disallowing pre-mades on pvE servers. There's no reason for them to go to pvp servers the way it is and why would they when they can beat up on pvE players trying to dip their feet in and have a little fun.....the pvE players instead get owned by polished pvp pros hanging out on a pvE server running voice(vent, skype, etc) in their pre-made. This is a very obvious problem one can extrapolate from only a few weeks of pvP play. What good does banning macros do when you allow voice using pre-mades to face pugs?? Nothing, it encourages hardcore pvP'es to hide out on pvE servers where they'll face no real competition.
If you bothered to read what you quoted you would see that it says they turn a blind eye to emote macros. and typing inc snow is fine because that means you aren't being attacked. if you get opened on by stealth you have plenty of time while stunned to hit 4 keys.(enter,1s,enter)
Bottom line. Stop clicking and learn to key bind. basically. L2P.
The real problem macros are auto clicking in hutt ball and having an o **** button to pop all your def cd's at once. Although even these aren't a big deal.

JaingSkiratapwns's Avatar


JaingSkiratapwns
02.21.2014 , 04:36 PM | #376
Quote: Originally Posted by LordGermanicuss View Post
Still VERY relevant....except to those who want to maintain the very bogus status quo....

Nope, don't use macros. It just annoys me when old threads are rezzed. Not sure why though.

Sangrar's Avatar


Sangrar
02.21.2014 , 05:08 PM | #377
Quote: Originally Posted by LordGermanicuss View Post
Still VERY relevant....except to those who want to maintain the very bogus status quo....
I want to ask, do you have any actual proof that people are using macros daily like you claim? any evidence? saying someone is using an "obvious"macros is not proof at all. I seriously want to see actual evidence of your allegations
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DanNV's Avatar


DanNV
02.21.2014 , 05:35 PM | #378
Quote: Originally Posted by Sangrar View Post
I want to ask, do you have any actual proof that people are using macros daily like you claim? any evidence? saying someone is using an "obvious"macros is not proof at all. I seriously want to see actual evidence of your allegations
LOL The only proof would be to sit down at the player's computer while they were using the macros. We all know that isn't going to happen.
REGULATORS

Sangrar's Avatar


Sangrar
02.21.2014 , 05:45 PM | #379
Quote: Originally Posted by DanNV View Post
LOL The only proof would be to sit down at the player's computer while they were using the macros. We all know that isn't going to happen.
exactly, the guy who necroed this is just assuming macros are a daily thing with no evidential support
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Puissant's Avatar


Puissant
02.21.2014 , 07:00 PM | #380
Quote: Originally Posted by DanNV View Post
LOL The only proof would be to sit down at the player's computer while they were using the macros. We all know that isn't going to happen.
Try asking people. People use them all the time. Not game breaking.