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Macros for pvp, respecing, grabbing huttballs. Legal?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Macros for pvp, respecing, grabbing huttballs. Legal?
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Capt_Beers's Avatar


Capt_Beers
07.03.2013 , 03:10 PM | #351
Quote: Originally Posted by Guthlac View Post
Haha Jokes on you, I glued a Popsicle stick across my 234567 keys, now I never have to learn to play
I loled
<HVND> - Harbinger - <HVND>
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Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
07.03.2013 , 04:29 PM | #352
Quote: Originally Posted by Capt_Beers View Post
Now for your car analogy this is as if the Sheriff sold you his Sheriff's car with government plates and the implied ability to use how you see fit, say for speeding, and then arrested you for for speeding in a government vehicle.
Show me where the Razer advertisement/promotion is advocating the use of TOS breaking macros in SWTOR. PLEASE.

Seriously. It doesn't do that. At all. People are talking as though listing a capability is the same as saying 'go ahead, do it wherever you like, we've got you covered!'.

For sale. One white ex policecar. 300bhp. Top speed of 140mph. Does 0-60 in 6 seconds.

AHA! GOT YOU NOW YOU CAN NEVER EVER PULL ME OVER!!!!!1111
ZacharÔah - Commando / Chasso - Merc
Youtube / Twitch
2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

enabe's Avatar


enabe
07.03.2013 , 04:48 PM | #353
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
Show me where the Razer advertisement/promotion is advocating the use of TOS breaking macros in SWTOR. PLEASE.

Seriously. It doesn't do that. At all. People are talking as though listing a capability is the same as saying 'go ahead, do it wherever you like, we've got you covered!'.

For sale. One white ex policecar. Top speed of 140mph. Does 0-60 in 6 seconds.

AHA! GOT YOU NOW YOU CAN NEVER EVER PULL ME OVER!!!!!1111
selling points right off the box for it found pic on-line

A first for the world of gaming technology, the Star Wars: The Old Republic Gaming Keyboard by Razer features a full-color highly sensitive multi-touch LCD panel, and incorporates ten adaptive tactile keys, providing more room for easily accessible skills, hotkeys, and macros. Plus, you can convert the entire keyboard from alpha-numeric to Aurebesh! The interchangeable gold backlit faction symbols let you showcase your allegiance with the Galactic Republic or the Sith Empire. The Force is with you in this ultimate tool for intergalactic domination.

and then even another article that promotes it as:

So the first one is the Razer SWTOR Gaming Keyboard, which includes a touch-sensitive LCD with track-panel so youíre sure the force will guide for better control. There will be 10 adaptive tactile keys that are customizable, and gold backlit for each keys. Meanwhile, these keys are programmable perfect if youíre in for MACRO recording. Lastly, itíll have 1MHz ultrapolling with 1ms response time and a 7 foot USB cable.

also found this when they Introduces that they teamed up with razor to have the keyboards made at the E 3 in 2011

Razerís SWTOR keyboard is a very intriguing piece of technology as it contains two rather unique features. On the right side of the keyboard, Razer has included a full-color sensitive multi-touch LCD panel, which should allow players to monitor in-game data from SWTOR. Directly above the LCD, there are ten adaptive tactile keys which can be customized for hotkeys with in-game icons and/or macros

in case you were wondering if it was something they knew was in the product before: same article

Razer has joined up with both BioWare and LucasArts to develop its Star Wars: The Old Republic product line, which includes an innovative gaming keyboard, a wireless gaming mouse with a twelve button thumb-grid, and a 5.1 surround sound headset.

and further proof they knew it could be Macro

Interestingly, this event also made possible for Razer, Bioware and LucasArts to tag along together, to unleash a collection of ďgaming weaponryĒ in a form of gaming peripherals that imbues what a galactic device should look like.

Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
07.03.2013 , 04:50 PM | #354
Quote: Originally Posted by enabe View Post
selling points right of the box for it

A first for the world of gaming technology, the Star Wars: The Old Republic Gaming Keyboard by Razer features a full-color highly sensitive multi-touch LCD panel, and incorporates ten adaptive tactile keys, providing more room for easily accessible skills, hotkeys, and macros. Plus, you can convert the entire keyboard from alpha-numeric to Aurebesh! The interchangeable gold backlit faction symbols let you showcase your allegiance with the Galactic Republic or the Sith Empire. The Force is with you in this ultimate tool for intergalactic domination.

also found this when they Introduces that they teamed up with razor to have the keyboards made at the E 3 in 2011

Razerís SWTOR keyboard is a very intriguing piece of technology as it contains two rather unique features. On the right side of the keyboard, Razer has included a full-color sensitive multi-touch LCD panel, which should allow players to monitor in-game data from SWTOR. Directly above the LCD, there are ten adaptive tactile keys which can be customized for hotkeys with in-game icons and/or macros

in case you were wondering if it was something they new was in the product before: same article

Razer has joined up with both BioWare and LucasArts to develop its Star Wars: The Old Republic product line, which includes an innovative gaming keyboard, a wireless gaming mouse with a twelve button thumb-grid, and a 5.1 surround sound headset.
A simple list of functions.

Top speed, 140mph. Ladies and gentlemen, the freeway is yours.

Heck, even the simple word 'macro' does not necessarily need to be for a bannable offense. They've already stated that emote macros used sparingly fall in a gray area.
ZacharÔah - Commando / Chasso - Merc
Youtube / Twitch
2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

enabe's Avatar


enabe
07.03.2013 , 05:16 PM | #355
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
A simple list of functions.

Top speed, 140mph. Ladies and gentlemen, the freeway is yours.

Heck, even the simple word 'macro' does not necessarily need to be for a bannable offense. They've already stated that emote macros used sparingly fall in a gray area.
dude u are missing the point re-read my early post about consumer rights
The Consumer Protection Committee monitors and reports on developments in the law of false and deceptive advertising, unfair trade practices and illegal marketing. These developments often include cases brought by private litigants, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and state attorneys general, as well as consumer class actions, competitor suits under Section 43(a) of the Lanham Act, and decisions by the Better Business Bureau's National Advertising Division (NAD).

By telling the consumer that on this keyboard for this game u can macro then Banning them for it is from what i am reading either deceptive advertising or illegal marketing.

deceptive advertising: i quote webster's
False advertising or deceptive advertising is the use of false or misleading statements in advertising. As advertising has the potential to persuade people into commercial transactions that they might otherwise avoid, many governments around the world use regulations to control false, deceptive or misleading advertising. "Truth" refers to essentially the same concept, that customers have the right to know what they are buying, and that all necessary information should be on the label.

and i will be nice here and highlight key points to the definition for u jrherad.
Which is not it does not stat that using the macro function of the keyboard or mouse would be a breach of the games ToS or the RoC. so this is missleading.

SO AGAIN I STAT LETS TRY TO GET BETTER CLARIFICATION ON THIS FROM A DEV OR HIGHER ON THIS ISSUE

Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
07.03.2013 , 05:35 PM | #356
Quote: Originally Posted by enabe View Post
By telling the consumer that on this keyboard for this game u can macro then Banning them for it is from what i am reading either deceptive advertising or illegal marketing.
I take you mean 'that this keyboard is capable of using macros' rather than using macros in the game, which, you know, the advertisement doesn't actually do. So not actually deceptive or 'illegal'.

Quote:
Which is not it does not stat that using the macro function of the keyboard or mouse would be a breach of the games ToS or the RoC. so this is missleading.
And a cop selling a car has to explicitly state in his advert that doing the top speed would be against the law? Wow.

---

Ok peeps, I'm done with this for now. I don't macro myself, don't own one of these products, and BW have already ruled, so I'm happy with the status quo. Let's just say that I find these arguments ridiculous in the extreme. In order to sell a modern high end mouse or keyboard, macro functions are a must. Full stop.

Mice and keyboards are useable outside of the game (shock horror) which is where I would expect you to use macros. Likewise, a cop privately selling his car would find very few buyers if he had to limit it to 65 because some muppet would get the wrong idea if he listed its top speed.

Perhaps its my upbringing. Perhaps its my nationality. But I find it completely normal to apply boundaries to how I would use an object based on the laws governing an area I would use it as WELL as its product description. Is that so odd? Is it so very odd to you to find that some items can not be used for their entire functionality at all times? Do people seriously think that no MMO which bans macros should ever run a promotion with a peripheral capable of them (or shock horror describe its capabilities)?
ZacharÔah - Commando / Chasso - Merc
Youtube / Twitch
2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

Capt_Beers's Avatar


Capt_Beers
07.03.2013 , 05:53 PM | #357
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
Show me where the Razer advertisement/promotion is advocating the use of TOS breaking macros in SWTOR. PLEASE.

Seriously. It doesn't do that. At all. People are talking as though listing a capability is the same as saying 'go ahead, do it wherever you like, we've got you covered!'.

For sale. One white ex policecar. 300bhp. Top speed of 140mph. Does 0-60 in 6 seconds.

AHA! GOT YOU NOW YOU CAN NEVER EVER PULL ME OVER!!!!!1111
It says right in that picture that was linked "rebind ... macros to every button to keep you on the top of your game." Right there on the box. If that's not a direct claim that you can use them it's very misleading. As I said in my above post, they sold you a product on terms (assign your macros to this mouse) that they will not honor (violates the ToS). It would be like:

- Buying a club in a Pro Shop that has the pro shops name on it that is banned on that course (not all courses just that one).

or

- Being an MLB player suspended for using MLB brand steroids.

You need to let go of this car analogy. The normal Naga would be an ex-police car. The SWTOR Naga is an in use vehicle with current police plates sold to you by the Sheriff who had a deputy drop it off. The fact it's a car isn't important, just like I someone could have gotten a normal Naga or Logitech. It's the police plates and markings (SWTOR branding and ad copy). It's not important that it's a mouse that can use macros and they won't let us use macros. It's that they branded and advertised a mouse for macro use and made that a selling point on the box. It's deceptive.

And like I said before they don't have to let us use macros. I don't even use any. But if they sell you a product with that feature prominently advertised to help you "stay on top of your game" and make use of those features suspendable that is bait and switch and at the least you are entitled to a refund and eligible to make a BBB complaint.
<HVND> - Harbinger - <HVND>
Keef-Stone 60 Serenity | | Keets-Stone 60 Seer | | Keith-Stone 60 Combat Medic | | Keeth-Stone 60 Vigilance
Keet-Stone 55 Focus | | CaptBeers 60 Arsenal | | Kee'th 60 Pyrotech | | FOTM-Reroll 55 Tactics

enabe's Avatar


enabe
07.03.2013 , 05:59 PM | #358
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
I take you mean 'that this keyboard is capable of using macros' rather than using macros in the game, which, you know, the advertisement doesn't actually do. So not actually deceptive or 'illegal'.



And a cop selling a car has to explicitly state in his advert that doing the top speed would be against the law? Wow.

---

Ok peeps, I'm done with this for now. I don't macro myself, don't own one of these products, and BW have already ruled, so I'm happy with the status quo. Let's just say that I find these arguments ridiculous in the extreme. In order to sell a modern high end mouse or keyboard, macro functions are a must. Full stop.

Mice and keyboards are useable outside of the game (shock horror) which is where I would expect you to use macros. Likewise, a cop privately selling his car would find very few buyers if he had to limit it to 65 because some muppet would get the wrong idea if he listed its top speed.

Perhaps its my upbringing. Perhaps its my nationality. But I find it completely normal to apply boundaries to how I would use an object based on the laws governing an area I would use it as WELL as its product description. Is that so odd? Is it so very odd to you to find that some items can not be used for their entire functionality at all times? Do people seriously think that no MMO which bans macros should ever run a promotion with a peripheral capable of them (or shock horror describe its capabilities)?
If this functions are not to be used in the game then yes they should not promote that part of the functions of that said item. Then they should not even mention it but they promoted this function and it should be allowed to be used in the game.They even pushed that promotion by offering a in-game crystal if u bought the one of the product with the razer color crystal. So would a person even buy this keyboard if they were told they could not use that function of the keyboard? No they would not buy the product.

And please stop with the car examples because if a cop sells you a car and tells you to speed in it and you get pulled over by that same cop it is entrapment even if a different cop pulls u over for speeding it could be consider entrapment.
then if a dealership sells u a car with the selling point of it goes 120mph and says u can so it all day long and a cop pulls u over it is not the dealership that is giving u the ticket it is a third party (the law)

SO AGAIN I REQUEST DEVS OR HIGHER HELP ON THIS ISSUE AND NOT A PLAYERS POINT OF VIEW ON THE PROBLEM .

Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
07.03.2013 , 06:02 PM | #359
Quote: Originally Posted by enabe View Post
if a cop sells u car and tells u to speed in it
/facepalm

I'm done now, I promise.
ZacharÔah - Commando / Chasso - Merc
Youtube / Twitch
2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

enabe's Avatar


enabe
07.04.2013 , 07:16 AM | #360
ok jherad try this get a pic of mickey mouse doing something sexual with a president and see how far that goes (OH WAIT MICKEY MOUSE IS A COPY RIGHTED PRODUCT) so u cannot do that.

Ok so you say with the pic capt_beers provide that it is not misleading but (oh wait there the SWTOR LOGO right on it) razer would have to have permission to use it(because of copy right laws) and they would have to tell BW that it could be used to break some of their ToS and RoC. So when BW told Razer to go ahead and do this BW and Lucas Arts knew that the game could be macro So when Razer put on the box the swtor logo, BW had to buy off on what it said so when it say the "Razer drive software allows easy organization and absolute freedom to remap key binds, character abilities, and macros to keep you on top of your game.Ē

So yes this is misleading the consumers when there is no mention that macros are against the ToS or the RoC so being this is as capt_beers say a bait and switch BW would have to give everyone that bought these products a refund which I donít think they will do because that could cost especially at $250 per a keyboard and $150 per a mouse and then all those people could go to the BBB and file a complaint or BW can just Change the ToS and RoC to allow macros period