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Macros for pvp, respecing, grabbing huttballs. Legal?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Macros for pvp, respecing, grabbing huttballs. Legal?
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TrooperSev's Avatar

06.23.2013 , 05:39 PM | #301
Quote: Originally Posted by funkiestj View Post
My definition
  • a single in game action: one player ability is cast.

My guess as to your and Phillip's definition:
  • a single in game action: a single MS Windows input event is sent from the operating system to the SWTOR client. NOTE: most computer operating systems have separate events for keyboard 'a' pressed down and keyboard 'a' released (often called 'a down' and 'a up' events). For the purposes of SWTOR, we will ignore keyboard and button up events and only consider 'down events'. I.e. receiving 'a down' event followed by 'a up' event counts as a single action by this definition, not 2 actions.

Consider the following scenario
  • we are a level 55 sage with key bindings
    • 1 - project (force, 30m range)
    • 2 - strike (melee, 4m range)
    • 3 - unbound (i.e. '3' is bound to a quickslot but the quick slot has no ability)
  • our current enemy target is 20m away and we have clear line of sight
  • we press the '3' key. Was there an in game action?
  • we press the key '2' and the strike ability is not activated because the target is too far away. Was there an in game action?
  • we press the '1' key, project is activated and our enemy is smashed to tiny bits (praise be to Revan). Was there an in game action?

By my definition, pressing '3' and pressing '2' in the scenario above does not result in an in game action. Apparently by your and Phillip's definition, even pressing '3' is an in game action.
Your understanding and definition is a little off. Yes, if key '3' was pressed, nothing happens that you can see. That doesn't mean that nothing happens though. When you press the key, in the background a check is made. The game shows you pressing the '3' button, but because nothing is bound, the game doesn't show any ability.

For the '2' button, the difference is that instead of the ability playing out, an error comes back showing that that ability can't be used. It doesn't mean that the game just ignores your click.
Dark Helmet - "So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

JackNader's Avatar

06.23.2013 , 07:12 PM | #302
The whole point of a GCD is to balance macro use. The fact that phillip is claiming you can't use macro's when they have a GCD in place is down right ridiculous. Macro's have been around for a very long time and they have a lot of legitimate reasons for being in games.

Some of those reasons are :=
They assist people with disabilities ( RSI, amputated limbs, swollen joints, disfigurement) in playing.
They give the player the option to customize their keyboard / controller configuration in a way that is useful to them.
They give the user a more effective means of managing the excessive ability bloat in games.
They give players with hardware limitations (3 button mouse and a mini keyboard) the ability to extend the amount of keys available to them.
etc, etc

The simple fact is.. people would be far less likely to use third party macro programs if Bioware included macro support in swtor. This whole debate reminds me of the napster vs music industry. No amount of policing / litigation by the music industry was ever going to stop people downloading music. It took them years to finally realize this and adapt.

brandonvi's Avatar

06.23.2013 , 09:47 PM | #303
you guys need to put a macro system in if your not going to let people use there high end keyboards or mouse or what ever to make up for what you guys did not put in

I don't know about others but I only have 5 fingers I can only hit 5 or maybe 6 keys at best some of the rotations have as many as 8 things in them there is just no way you can hit everything that needs to be hit with out a $50 mouse with 14 keys or macros

which is why I am a commando for a main (only 5 keys in main rotation on both heal and dps spec)
or guardian with has 7 keys (which I do less then 1/2 the dps with)

As is I have no hope of doing anything more then story with any other classes then commando or the imp version of it

Darth_Vampirius's Avatar

06.24.2013 , 02:14 AM | #304
Quote: Originally Posted by Phillip_BW View Post

Interesting approach there funkiestj.

I thought I was pretty clear that one input action must equal only one action in game, but obviously not - so please find below red X's next to the correct answers.

One of the examples features Huittball. Now, on Ebon Hawk, we have a guild or two who like to point out the words of Baron Deathmark "cheating is encouraged" when they hack. It's not hard to find. They talk about hacking on the forums, and even named their guild after a cheat device.

So, while cheating in huttball might be "against the TOS", it is certainly being allowed.
//We have seen the argument of Skill vs. Gear throughout the existence of MMO PvP and we are of the opinion both are good for an RPG, falling on one side of the scale (gear has no purpose in PvP vs. gear is the only thing that matters in PvP) is not desirable.//

onineko's Avatar

06.24.2013 , 05:16 AM | #305
would be nice to have a csr team enter warzones and witness the ld50's and wooks of the swtor world
do the cheats then actually do something on a regular basis they can put a quick end to the cheats .
doesn't matter if hardware based or not every key stroke is recorded and readable by a quality
dev. having been a server admin for counter-strike I learned to spot cheats .
and it is becoming all to obvious nothing is being done when people use them in non-ranked
yesterday watched 3 lag bombs as I call them occur .
bolster has been broken since beta and should just be automatic 2 stuns immune for 15 sec
or diminished returns with each stun after first.
hell even if they just went to youtube and watched but maybe they want more paying clients to convert to ftp.
yet when I watch a video of someone cheating then look on forums to see that swtor bought the
excuse that it was an oops granted this is old .
these jokers knew what they were doing.
here is my idea if a person is caught cheating swtor has a marco of there own stating so and so of guild banned for x days for cheating and it is a global message that activates upon that persons next log in.
ah wishful thinking right.
Would you like cheese and bread to go with that whine

Guthlac's Avatar

06.24.2013 , 06:47 AM | #306
Haha Jokes on you, I glued a Popsicle stick across my 234567 keys, now I never have to learn to play

Burtlebe's Avatar

06.24.2013 , 07:50 AM | #307
Quote: Originally Posted by Groovykool View Post

Agree. Voice chat should be banned. It is unfair to those that don't have it.
Here is my problem, your macro gains just you an advantage. Voice chat is there for anyone to use that while giving a communication advantage doesn't gain you any advantage other than communication. As much as I enjoy this game I would drop it in a heartbeat if it had no voice communication allowed.

They have done an excellent job of preventing this game from becoming like WOW where you are required to have so many external programs installed to just be able to play it on a somewhat level field. Rules are Rules, if people are not good enough to play the game under said rules and have to have automation in order to win then maybe this isn't the game for those people.
Burtimus'prime Vanguard Tank
Guild Leader Army of the Republic / The Army of Darkness / The Unmentionables
The Shadowlands Server

JackNader's Avatar

06.24.2013 , 08:22 AM | #308
It's not that cut and dry.

Yes, there are people who absolutely, unequivocally use macros with the intended purpose of gaining an advantage. Politeassassin brought to light a guy who is abusing the macro system with the intended purpose of gaining an advantage. The advantage that he gains is debatable but its the guys intent that worries me. This type of player would literally do anything to gain an upperhand. If he could hack the game for an advantage and knew he wouldn't be caught, there is no doubt in my mind that he would do it.

On the other hand, there are players who macro for other reasons. Suppose stephen hawking decided to play swtor. He would need to use eye recognition software in conjunction with pixel readers to be able to move his character around and trigger abilities. Would Stephen Hawking be a cheat? Under the present TOS, yes. However, if Bioware decided to take action against him they would in all likelihood have the book thrown at them for blatant discrimination. It would be better to turn a blind eye. Disabled people have the right to play a video game just as much as everyone else.

Macro software comes with just about every piece of gaming hardware for the past 15 years. They are available to everyone, everywhere and at anytime. This is why it absolutely baffles me that Bioware has taken such an archaic stance. Me personally, I couldn't care less who is using them. I expect people to be using them against me. I've been playing computer games competitively for over 15 years and during that time I've learned that the ability to "push" buttons doesn't rank very high on the skill chart. What separates players is observational awareness, intuitive adaptation, the ability to foresee how a player will respond if you take a certain action against them and counter, and positional awareness. The ability to push a button is so low on the skill chart it's not even worth worrying about. This sort of makes me chuckle because I am forever screaming at 30k pugs to 'push buttons."

Map hackers and autobotters in battlefield 2 are a perfect case in point. In my time playing competitive BF2 I ran into hundreds upon hundreds of them. These clowns, despite having all these supposed advantages amazingly never did very well. They were always outsmarted and outplayed. At the end of the day, all they got out of it was a banned account and a **** kill death ratio.

daripa's Avatar

06.25.2013 , 01:51 AM | #309
Quote: Originally Posted by AlexThomasG View Post
PVP is a SMALL part of this game.
PVP is the ONLY part of this game

funkiestj's Avatar

06.25.2013 , 12:02 PM | #310
Quote: Originally Posted by TrooperSev View Post
Your understanding and definition is a little off. Yes, if key '3' was pressed, nothing happens that you can see. That doesn't mean that nothing happens though. When you press the key, in the background a check is made. The game shows you pressing the '3' button, but because nothing is bound, the game doesn't show any ability.
Your definition of in game action is : A windows input event is passed from the Windows Operating system to the SWTOR client process. Why create a new term (in game action)? Why not simply say "any windows input event"?

Again, trying to use everyday english without precisely defining a nomenclature is the problem here.

If I said "I kept smashing the 1 key on my keyboard but nothing happened in game" you would think I meant "no windows input event was sent to SWTOR" rather than "my toon took no action"? Okay .... very intuitive definition of in game you have there.

Mr. Hat says "BW support is the best"!
I am a bad player, so what?