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Macros for pvp, respecing, grabbing huttballs. Legal?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Macros for pvp, respecing, grabbing huttballs. Legal?
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sanchito's Avatar


sanchito
06.20.2013 , 02:46 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by Phillip_BW View Post
... If it does, ask a binary question and I'll give a yes/no
Huttball clicking macro? tons of clicks but the game will only ever register one of them. allowed?

DanNV's Avatar


DanNV
06.20.2013 , 02:56 PM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by Anzel View Post
What about the software that comes with the SWTOR Razer Mouse. That is specifically build for Macroing. I think this is a bit confusing for folks who forked over $100 for the hardware and software based on this exact feature set.

Now you're saying that it's illegal to use the features of a product, which is specifically co-branded with SWTOR, that you marketed for this purpose?????
Most of the key remapping he said is ok also requires the macro software, it's just a single key macro, so the G1 key on that Logitech keyboard now equals <CTRL 1>. So, you're pressing G1 instead of Control and 1 together. The problem is when that G1 key is programmed to do more than just that one thing.

MillionsKNives's Avatar


MillionsKNives
06.20.2013 , 03:18 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by Phillip_BW View Post
Chiming in....

I'll be as clear as I can be.

Automation of the game in any way is against the ToS. This includes macro'ing in order to respec during Warzone matches.

Remapping keys on a keyboard (or Nostromo or Logitech) device so that one key press == one click or ability cast within the game is fine. Using a programmable keyboard or software macro so that one key press == multiple clicks or ability casts in the game is not.

Hopefully that doesn't leave room for 'interpretation'. If it does, ask a binary question and I'll give a yes/no
Your response leads me to believe the official answer would be no, but I'll ask anyway. If I were to set up a macro to switch specs as mentioned but only used it as a quality-of-life thing that wasn't used in PVP or in the middle of a PVE encounter would that still be considered against TOS and actionable? Is it against the TOS but only frowned upon and wouldn't get actioned if it's not abused, as it was in the OP? Is the answer to the last question a yes, but you can't officially state that so you'll respond with a no even if it's a yes? If that's a yes, then you can just wink and I won't tell anyone.

Changing specs can be a big PITA if you have to do it often and any way to avoid the tedium would be welcome.

Asunasan's Avatar


Asunasan
06.20.2013 , 03:23 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by Phillip_BW View Post
Chiming in....

I'll be as clear as I can be.

Automation of the game in any way is against the ToS. This includes macro'ing in order to respec during Warzone matches.

Remapping keys on a keyboard (or Nostromo or Logitech) device so that one key press == one click or ability cast within the game is fine. Using a programmable keyboard or software macro so that one key press == multiple clicks or ability casts in the game is not.

Hopefully that doesn't leave room for 'interpretation'. If it does, ask a binary question and I'll give a yes/no
So does that mean you are actually going to enforce on 3-4 second respecs now? and I mean more than just when you get reports because rules without enforcement just means that the majority of suckers will follow the rules while a few won't, and will those few will then have an edge that they quite understandably use. If you don't enforce it everyone can justify that even though its a violation they have to do it to be competitive, since others are doing it with little to no risk since it can be a tricky thing for players to catch.


TLDR: 2 binary questions. Are you going to enforce on respec macros and are you going proactively shut down respec macros or merely investigate and enforce on reports?

Capt_Beers's Avatar


Capt_Beers
06.20.2013 , 03:27 PM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by Phillip_BW View Post
Chiming in....

I'll be as clear as I can be.

Automation of the game in any way is against the ToS. This includes macro'ing in order to respec during Warzone matches.

Remapping keys on a keyboard (or Nostromo or Logitech) device so that one key press == one click or ability cast within the game is fine. Using a programmable keyboard or software macro so that one key press == multiple clicks or ability casts in the game is not.

Hopefully that doesn't leave room for 'interpretation'. If it does, ask a binary question and I'll give a yes/no
Congratulations on opening that can of worms.

Ready the popcorn!
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Threid's Avatar


Threid
06.20.2013 , 03:28 PM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by Phillip_BW View Post
Automation of the game in any way is against the ToS. This includes macro'ing in order to respec during Warzone matches.

Remapping keys on a keyboard (or Nostromo or Logitech) device so that one key press == one click or ability cast within the game is fine. Using a programmable keyboard or software macro so that one key press == multiple clicks or ability casts in the game is not.
Thank you for stepping in to clarify this for everyone. While some of us were fairly certain the policy forbid such behavior, there were a considerable number of us who took a more liberal interpretation. Now everyone should be clear on what is and is not allowed.

I hope that the discussions that have taken place here regarding the ease of respeccing, the use of respec during warzones, and macro utility in general will be useful to staff in developing new features, or modifying old ones to be more player-friendly.
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Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
06.20.2013 , 03:32 PM | #107
Yeesh folks, seriously? He made it very clear.

For those of you having a challenge with his very clear statement as to what IS and IS-NOT acceptable, let me assist you, quoting Phillips own words, and with traffic light colors.

IS ALLOWED:
Quote: Originally Posted by Phillip_BW View Post
Remapping keys on a keyboard (or Nostromo or Logitech) device so that one key press == one click or ability cast within the game is fine.
IS-NOT ALLOWED (no matter what your razer naga, keyboard, or pet gerbil is willing to do for you):
Quote: Originally Posted by Phillip_BW View Post

Using a programmable keyboard or software macro so that one key press == multiple clicks or ability casts in the game is not.
Phillips comment is sure to reignite the demand for multi-spec on the click of a key of course. AND in game enforcement of statement of record.
Forum disputatio ------> est completum ineptias.

stringcat's Avatar


stringcat
06.20.2013 , 03:33 PM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by Phillip_BW View Post
Remapping keys on a keyboard (or Nostromo or Logitech) device so that one key press == one click or ability cast within the game is fine. Using a programmable keyboard or software macro so that one key press == multiple clicks or ability casts in the game is not.

Hopefully that doesn't leave room for 'interpretation'. If it does, ask a binary question and I'll give a yes/no
I think a lot of confusion comes from the wording of BW's previous post stating that "It is okay to bind a macro that performs abilities after each other as long as it still requires the user to press the button on the physical keyboard each time a new action is performed."

I have no idea what kind of function Bioware intends that to cover, but it seems to involve more than remapping keys. So my "binary question" is: Can we treat that guidance as out-of-date and effectively overruled?

(I think the answer should be 'yes,' or it will be a continuing source of confusion)
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funkiestj's Avatar


funkiestj
06.20.2013 , 03:36 PM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by Phillip_BW View Post
Chiming in....

I'll be as clear as I can be.

Automation of the game in any way is against the ToS. This includes macro'ing in order to respec during Warzone matches.
awesome! A definitive answer.

Presumably the operative phrase above is "macro to respec". If a player is out of WZ the same respec macro is still prohibited, right?

TANGENT: it is a lot easier to make forbidden behavior impossible or unprofitable. E.g. recently the "body type 1 in the corner of the Novare hut" exploit was fixed (or so the patch notes say). This is much better than leaving the exploit but saying exploiters are breaking the ToS.

Likewise, if there was a minimum time between when the "respec skills" button was pressed and when the "commit" takes effect the value of a respec macro would go way down. Instead of having to police that particular usage you've removed the incentive to violate the ToS and then spending resources policing this rule.

Quote:

Remapping keys on a keyboard (or Nostromo or Logitech) device so that one key press == one click or ability cast within the game is fine. Using a programmable keyboard or software macro so that one key press == multiple clicks or ability casts in the game is not.
discussion example: I have the following numeric to ability mapping
  1. dispatch (target must be below 30% health)
  2. guardian slash (often on cooldown)
  3. basic attack (uses no mana, always off of cooldown)
  4. riposte (requires a proc, ignores the GCD)
  5. saber throw
  6. force leap

If I program my razer naga so that the '1' button sends '123' is that allowed? This is the typical priority list example. for a single press of '1', only one of dispatch, guardian slash, basic attack will cast

How about if when I press '1' it sends '4123'? This will actually cause 2 abilities to be cast (if riposte is procced) since riposte ignores the GCD. This is a specific example of the general single key press casts 1 or more abilities that do not respect the GCD and 1 ability that does.

clearly a macro that sends '5', delay 1.3 seconds, '6' when I press the '5' button is prohibited.

Quote:

Hopefully that doesn't leave room for 'interpretation'. If it does, ask a binary question and I'll give a yes/no
Here are some questions with yes/no answers:
  • has BW disciplined any players in the last 3 months for using a respec macro in warzone?
  • has BW disciplined any players in the last 3 months for using a macro that casts more than 1 ability with a single key press ? E.g. the '1234' or the '56' example above?

Based on things people have said in forums, I'm pretty sure there are people using both respec macros and huttball grabbing macros. If you are not catching and disciplining them I have to wonder at the value of the rules.

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I am a bad player, so what?

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
06.20.2013 , 03:36 PM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by sanchito View Post
Huttball clicking macro? tons of clicks but the game will only ever register one of them. allowed?
he answered that.... more than one click/ability = no go
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