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Why there are a lack of tanks

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles > Tanking
Why there are a lack of tanks

Leafy_Bug's Avatar


Leafy_Bug
06.18.2013 , 05:12 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
They do, but only on token and content drop gear (so you have to run content *and* get lucky with the drop table). The commendation gear never has decent enhancements.

This reminds me when the game came out, of the 14 times T5 run I did to get columi gloves for my tank because half the time it was trooper gear and the other time was smuggler gear when we had none of these classes in our composition .

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
06.18.2013 , 07:04 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by drtnap View Post
This is my point, tanking in pve makes you a plaything for even weak mobs, and grabbing and keeping aggro is a pain in the ***.
I'd debate both of those points.

For the first, unless you're a Shadow and dealing with the heavy spikes that some trash packs and certain bosses put you through, tanks are remarkably durable. Yes, they'll require continuous healing but that's just part of the holy trinity design. There's also the issue that, if you expect every trash pack at the early stages of an expansion to be conquered simply by running into it without any strategizing or CC, you're doing it wrong. There are some trash mobs where you're *expected* to throw out a CC or two and every FP has more than a couple of those.

Secondly, aggro in TOR is *incredibly* easy. Unless you're horribly overgeared and the DPS are using the wrong target priority or splitting their attention, no tanks should ever have to worry about threat. The threat multipliers on tank attacks (both the tank stance multiplier as well as the high threat multipliers) combined with the fact that taunts provides you with oodles of threat both mean that the threat "game" in TOR is incredibly simple. If you're complaining about threat, either you *and* your DPS have to be doing something *terribly* wrong.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
06.18.2013 , 09:11 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by xOxDarkyxOx View Post
5char
Isn't that proof enough, that by the long queue times waiting on tanks. It's the least desirable role to fill. Just because you play it and maybe enjoy it, doesn't speak for everyone else. Stop being self-centered.

Also as far as pulling off threat. My op DPS friend does a 4k DPS on her burst, you won't hold threat on that, I promise.

You have been debunked.

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
06.18.2013 , 09:14 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by grallmate View Post
Or it proves that there is a massive abundance of DPS and healers. Tanks use a completely different set of gear from either DPS or Healers so while those roles are largely interchangeable with a simple respec, a tank requires a whole new set of gear. Further, when soloing, tanks hit like little girls so clearing stuff can take ages.

The funny thing about finding tanks for 55 HMs is that most tanks either run them with their guild to get their weekly or get no benefit from them. It is stupid easy to get fully geared as a tank (I was full 69's by the end of early access) and once you're past that point the only incentive you have to run 55 HMs is the 3x weekly. Personally I think it was a bad decision on BW's part to reduce the incentive for tanks to queue.

Your final points comes across as "ner nee ner I'm right and you're wrong *blows raspberry*". Really mature.
With the first line of you're post, aren't you just agreeing with what he said? Yes you are.

I agree there should be more rewards for desired classes in order to fix the queue problem. Like you said though, it's easy to gear up a tank and the comms are worthless after a certain point. That's only part of the tank shortage problem though. The other part is, people just don't like playing the role. Getting in tanking range and then getting knocked back....rinse repeat x10 during any FP or Op(more in an Op) and they will quickly get bored.

Ever leap to a target and..BOOM knockedback, now you lost threat. Yea, that's really fun.

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
06.18.2013 , 09:20 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
And, yet, somehow, very few DPS manage to do this *very* simple thing.

I honestly think that misbehaving DPS are one of the big reasons why there are fewer tanks than there would be otherwise. DPS using the wrong kill order or splitting DPS on elite+ targets is *absurdly frustrating*. It probably doesn't help that tanks also have to put their trust in healers: if a healer is bad, a tank is going to faceplant, regardless of their gear. Tanking is a more complex role than healing or DPSing that is *forced* to place a lot of trust in the other players of the group not being idiots. When they *are* idiots, a tank's life is made incredibly frustrating (especially since most DPS will blame you for losing threat when the real reason is their inability to use proper focus DPS and target priority).
This post brings up very good points. The game is designed already not to be multi-target-tanking-friendly(Yea I made that up), so when a kill order is not followed or a CC is broken. Well I'm sure quite a few tanks just throw their arms up in the air and say "Rerolling DPS" to themselves.

Why wouldn't you roll a DPS? It's so much freedom to play how you want. Break a CC? Noone complains, the tank will get yelled at though for not picking it up. Not follow the kill order? That's fine, tank will be blamed for not picking it up. Pull ahead of the group? No worries, again, because the tank is moving too slow for the group!

Why would anyone want to put themselves in a lose-lose situation?

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drtnap
06.18.2013 , 09:49 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
Isn't that proof enough, that by the long queue times waiting on tanks. It's the least desirable role to fill. Just because you play it and maybe enjoy it, doesn't speak for everyone else. Stop being self-centered.

Also as far as pulling off threat. My op DPS friend does a 4k DPS on her burst, you won't hold threat on that, I promise.

You have been debunked.
It is impossible to hold groups of trash together when the ship strikes and mortar volleys come raining down.
They pull every time.
Force sweep and its ilke do nothing.
Area taunt if held till after initial strikes works momentarily then not.
Any dps can pull any trash mob off you at any time.
Even guarded healers can pull trash that they are not even hitting.
TFB trash is a pita.
I shouldnt have to worry about not pulling too much trash to me.
I used to be alot tougher.
Now i will die in trash fights without liberal use of cooldowns and good heals.
The point about jumping to a mob and having his proximity fused knockback go off is very valid.
It makes me feel like a douche not a hero.
The devs decided to make fights more about great heals and fast dps than uber tough tanks.
And it just isnt as much fun for me.
And clearly im not alone.
Making loooove out of nothing at all!

Stormskimmer's Avatar


Stormskimmer
06.18.2013 , 10:59 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
Isn't that proof enough, that by the long queue times waiting on tanks. It's the least desirable role to fill. Just because you play it and maybe enjoy it, doesn't speak for everyone else. Stop being self-centered.

Also as far as pulling off threat. My op DPS friend does a 4k DPS on her burst, you won't hold threat on that, I promise.

You have been debunked.
You know, that's a VERY good point. In fact, I'm going to make and upload a quick parse just to prove your point!

http://www.torparse.com/a/294630/1/0/Log

See? I'm only doing 3255 TPS over the course of that (not exceptionally well done) opener! That means I could only hold threat on ... Erm... about 4231 dps. I guess I CAN hold threat on 4k dps.

So, I guess that means, well...

"You have been debunked."

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
06.18.2013 , 11:06 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Stormskimmer View Post
You know, that's a VERY good point. In fact, I'm going to make and upload a quick parse just to prove your point!

http://www.torparse.com/a/294630/1/0/Log

See? I'm only doing 3255 TPS over the course of that (not exceptionally well done) opener! That means I could only hold threat on ... Erm... about 4231 dps. I guess I CAN hold threat on 4k dps.

So, I guess that means, well...

"You have been debunked."
Nice post!

Yea, I admit I did give a lot of leeway for the tank when I said 4k DPS. Since it's much higher than that, more around 4.5k. That only speaks for operative DPS though, I can't say for other AC's. So can you hold threat on that number as well?

TwoLekku's Avatar


TwoLekku
06.18.2013 , 01:17 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
Nice post!

Yea, I admit I did give a lot of leeway for the tank when I said 4k DPS. Since it's much higher than that, more around 4.5k. That only speaks for operative DPS though, I can't say for other AC's. So can you hold threat on that number as well?
Uhhh. Yeah.

First, it's not a start from scratch. Your operative friend either lets me start the party or I may just let him have his aggro for a bit...nothing like letting a dps have the aggro they want so desperately.

Second, there's this thing called 'guard'. It's not (usually) for the healer. So assuming I've figured out in the first 10 sec that your friend needs to be guarded, go ahead and slash that TPS number for me.

Third, there's this thing called 'taunt'.

Holding aggro against highly skilled dps is a pleasure. That's not the problem. The problem is what Kitru said - it's the neanderthal dps. Because with enough gear, any monkey can press buttons and feel like, wow, man, my damage is soooo gnarly, look at me...even if they're only scratching the surface of their potential. So they think they know what they're doing, and you start wiping because things like "kill order" and "cc" and "let the tank pull" and "when the trash are dead, hit what I'm hitting" are utterly foreign concepts, and you think the dps want to hear that it's their fault?

I don't need any more HM55 drops, as I'm full BM armor. And I don't need to take the 67.39% (super accurate number btw, i totally mathed it) chance that I'll tankpug a FP with at least one DerPS who doesn't know his job and yet doesn't want me to tell him his job.

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Kaos_KidSWTOR
06.18.2013 , 01:26 PM | #40
Something really tells me that the OP has had a wee bit too many tanks that dont taunt in their rotation...